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a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
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a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
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To: alt.pagan,alt.religion.all-worlds,alt.religion.wicca
From: woody@alumni.caltech.edu (William Edward Woody)
Subject: Re: NeoPagan/NeoPagan War
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 1996 13:27:26 -0700
lstead@cais.com (Lewis Stead) wrote:
> The problem is essentially this. People want a religious community, which
> by definition is made up of people with similar religious ideas. That
> community needs a title. Right now, many stretch the meaning of "pagan" so
> wide, that it no longer provides a sub-set of the world population that
> provides this community.
But you see, this religious community is trying to define it's borders
by associating a specific meaning to the word 'Pagan' which does not
fit the borders of the community.
And then bitch and moan when others who clearly fit the *techical*
definition, but who this group would rather exclude from their
community. And the complaint is often that those others are somehow
trying to steal the label, and twist the other groups belief system
around so that it no longer fits the technical definition of that label.
My complaint is not the desire to assign a name to the community--names
are an extremely important part of self-definition. My complaint is
when the technical definition doesn't fit, these same people, rather
than simply revising the definition of the label, instead go out and
twist other people's belief systems until they no longer fit the Pagan
label.
One of the things I've learned from this entire flamewar is that it
is the twisting--the redefinition--where the harm comes in, not from
the exclusion from the community.
Also note that in many of my posts I have refered to the 'Pagan
Movement' rather than the 'Pagan Religion.' That's because, like the
'Gay Movement', the Pagan Movement has two things in common: first,
it does not include everyone who is technically 'Pagan' (just as
the Gay Movement doesn't include everyone who is Gay), and the Pagan
Movement has this underlying need to define itself in terms of
the larger society.
I don't think there is a "Pagan" religion--the boundaries of
association who seem to want the 'Pagan' label do not have a clear
commonality of belief that also sets them apart from other folks they
would excluded from the same umbrella. That is, the entire Satanic
movement pretty much gets excluded from the Pagan umbrella by lots
of folks, even though just about every technical definition of
"Pagan" (beyond "Pagan is not Judeo-Christian") includes at least a
few folks from TOS--while these same restrictions of belief that
are designed to exclude Satanists somehow are not applied to
(in tern) the Norse folks, the Ceremonial Magicians (and those
who based their magic on the CM folks), or members of CAW and
other groups who would invoke Judeo-Christian archangels, symbols,
or even Jesus Christ Himself.
That's why I have said elsewhere "Paganism is made up of the folks
we like and not of the folks we don't like"--because as far as I can
tell, ultimately, this is what most people's definitions of Paganism
comes down to.
It's a rather negative way of saying "Paganism is the community I hang
out with, and excludes folks who may technically fit whatever definition
I put on the Pagan label, but who I *don't* want to hang out with."
But please don't get me wrong--I think excluding folks from your
community that you don't like or can't get along with is a *good*
thing. Just be mindful as to what you are doing, and don't go around
slandering other people's religions simply because you don't want
to include them in your circles, and yet are too damned lazy to
revise your definition of "Pagan," or are simply unable to admit to
the world at large that you just don't like them.
And stop claiming to be all encompassing and all open to other people's
religious beliefs, when you're really not.
- Bill
[Note: all comments above are *not* directed at the original poster,
but are my reflections to the world at large.]
--
William Edward Woody | e-mail: woody@alumni.cco.caltech.edu
In Phase Consulting | WWW: http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~woody
1545 Ard Eevin Ave | Fax: (818) 502-1467
Glendale, CA 91202 | ICBM: N:34.15' W:118.25'
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