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Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.pagan
From: MikeMagee@magee.demon.co.uk (mikemagee)
Subject: Re: Taoist and tantric magick?
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 1994 22:26:13 +0000
In article <2sggst$ect@hermes.synopsys.com>
keutzer@synopsys.com "Kurt Keutzer" writes:
> More generally what I meant was that there is, to
> my knowledge, almost no overlap between the lineages of Tantrism
> (Buddhist or Hindu) and the lineages of Magick. Your own lineage, which I
> mentioned, is the only one of which I am aware and the addition of Magick
> to the Adinatha lineage is a recent phenomenon. From reading "Aleister
> Crowley and the Hidden God" it does not appear to me that Aleister Crowley
> was an adept of any tantric lineage of which I am aware. That's just
The strange thing -- something Kenneth Grant pointed out to me
years ago -- was that Sir John Woodroffe & Crowley were contemporaries yet
despite the fact AC acknowledged Hindu tantra as relevant to his
quest, he never, to the best of my knowledge, mentioned any of the
books Woodroffe (Arthur Avalon) wrote. If anyone knows different,
I'd appreciate the reference. The Hymn to Kali tr by Woodroffe
contains very explicit references to consumption of semen and menses,
for example.
> Well, he better not be, but obviously the two practices are related.
> Ditto for stupifying enemies etc. Or lets choose and easier one -
> Is a Buddhist practicing kumbhaka pranayama within the completion stage
> of Chakrasamvara tantra performing the same practice as a Hindu practicing
> kumbhaka pranayama within the instructions of the Natha Sampradya?
> That's harder to judge. The topic is worthy of a few good books as you
> and I have discussed before.
It's hard to say. What's pretty apparent is that the Natha
sampradaya was a very eclectic and heterodox cult and included
Buddhistic and Hindu elements. They also rather spurned the
use of classy Sanskrit and certainly weren't keen on the caste
system. In later times, Islamic influences crept in too. And
even within the Natha sampradaya there were dozens of sub-sects
each of which had their own way of doing things. The Gorakhnath
Panth seem to have been celibate males but that certainly wasn't
the case with other of the sub-sects.
> Hindu Tantrism is too diverse to generalize, but within the schools that
> I am familiar the goal is to raise the kundalini to the sahasra and
> permanently establish it there.
> These motivations are not mutually exclusive, but they are not mutually
> inclusive either.
Interestingly, the Kaulajnananirnaya has only one reference to
kundalini and in the original sanskrit text edited by Bagchi there
are shorter texts attributed to Matsyendranath which say the
path of kundalini is a misleading way. Need to hoik out the
reference -- I've been searching for this text for months.
> So I guess it's time to ask you directly: In what way does Magick naturally
> complement the yoga of the Adinatha Siddhas? Could you talk a little bit
> more as to why those in your lineage have chosen to exposit your teachings
> as you have?
> Regards, Kurt
Dattatreya, the legendary founder of the Naths, is attributed
as an avadhuta with behaving according to his own will (Sveccha).
Dadaji compared this state with the realisation of the true
will -- my own feeling is that True Will is the spontaneous
(sahaja) manifestation of the Shiva within, if you like, beyond
names and beyond forms. It shines by its own light, goes
wheresoever it wills by the power of its own will.
Dadaji was much influenced by Crowley as I myself was, although
obviously not directly. I found in the Adinatha sampradaya a
deeper, older and more complete manifestation of that current.
In the Brihadnilatantra, Shiva is made to say that on the path
of acting according to one's own will (Svecchacharya) there are
no rules whatsoever. That tantra and others of the Kaula tradition
refer to a free state which chimes with the thelemic or magickal
way.
Mike
mikemagee@magee.demon.co.uk
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