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From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Hsi Wang Mu)
Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick.sex,alt.sex.wizards,alt.philosophy.taoism,talk.religion.misc
Subject: Re: sex and magick
Date: 3 Aug 1995 10:09:49 -0700
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49950803 [also sent separately to SRE]


dane888@epix.net (Donkey Boy) writes:

>I am having a hard time finding a serious, straightforeward discussion
>on the relationship between the loss of sexual fluids in the male during
>sex and magical energy.  

I think the groups to which I've Xposted this will draw the appropriate
individuals into the discussion.  

There are many different theories underlying fear or concern for the loss
of vital or seminal energies.  Pregnancy is a physical and real concern,
and there are many metaphysical explanations for these concerns as well.


>There are beliefs in Taoism and in Yoga that a man should try to reserve 
>his sexual fluids to strengthen his aura (ojas and all that).  

I have more often heard the reservatus admonition from the taoist
alchemists, sometimes to the (possibly dangerous!) extremes of
attempted rechannelling of the semen within the body or via vacuum
techniques caused by the contraction of certain muscles.

Tantric yogins to which I have been exposed (few, mostly in texts)
tend to bypass sexuality completely, focussing on an ascetic discipline,
or accept the notion of orgasm as a natural part of sexuality, though
not necessarily a central or indispensible element.

I'm sure there are various explanations for the retention and/or
absorption of the bodily fluids.  Usually it is associated with
power (chi, prana, ruach, spiritus, whatever), as often are the
vaginal secretions (blood, but also excititory fluids).


>...I have heard that this is due to tribal sex taboos and not of 
>any concern.  

'Tribal sex taboos'?  I think this is rather a quick dismissal,
though I don't tend to place much emphasis on the retention of
semen except for the protection versus pregnancy (and with my
vasectomy I won't have to worry about that once I've check out
as sterile :>; interesting -- since I can't lose sperm to the
Work any more, does that mean that I have no more holes in my
aura and am essentially without danger as considered within these
nonsemenphobic systems of metaphysics?  no, likely they would
say that the gross semen is only one aspect of the vital energy
and that other energies will pass, the most literal presuming
it to reside in the semenless ejaculate).


>I suppose the real question is not whether or not
>to have sex, but whether or not to ejaculate.  

Ejaculation is a healthy and pleasurable activity for most males.
Physically it is helpful, psychologically it is often therapeutic,
and emotionally it can be very useful, I find.  Metaphysically,
I think this will vary considerably.  Someone who wishes to
maintain a strict rule of chastity and interprets this to mean a
cessation of ejaculation might be best to abstain.  In general,
however, I think that there is little danger unless you are one
of the taoist alchemists who believes in all of this very rigidly
(in which case I'd suggest you follow the teachings closely and
resist ejaculation as it could be damaging to operate on low chi).

I don't worry about it for myself, and I sometimes use my ejaculate
for the magical substance it is in my rites.  Sex magick sometimes
includes doing things with the vital juices and the more dangerous
practices may involve excretia or other taboos.  Sometimes these
things come up quite without intention, every aspect of the partner
suddenly taking on the dimension of hidden knowledge which may be
known to incredible depths if one dares trespass the forbidden.


>My experiments have been 
>inconclusive, but as I said, I am having trouble finding background info.
>Has anyone had more experience or knowledge with this practice?  

I have never practiced a taoist regimen, nor do I remember speaking in-depth
with anyone who has done such things.  I've known several people who were
involved with what they called sex magick and/or tantra, and sometimes
this included working with sex drives, impeding or encouraging orgasm or
ejaculation, and often some sort of visualization and/or ceremony.

More often than not I have heard the opinion expressed that these ideas
are like ladders -- useful if we wish to be going to where they lead
and need them to get there.  That is, the confusion of the physical with
the metaphysical is a difficult puzzle to unravel, and there appear to
be a number of people who presume that what we believe will make all the
difference where our development and health are concerned.

Thus, some who believe strongly in the taoist and yogic theoretics may
well be best retaining their tools and disciplines.  Those who are not
hip-deep in taoist sexual alchemy probably don't need to bother unless
you truly feel that it affects your vital energies in some way.  There
are Wiccans, for example, who cast circles when they engage sexuality
in order to have full determination over the energies involved and
where they go, regardless if they wish to 'do' something with it (kinda
like ritually dispensing with cut hair or fingernails, I suppose).


>Is it a leftover of old sexual restrictions or is there something to it?  

I think it is an echo of the fear which resides around erection and
pregnancy.  It is at once a very real and important redirection from
reproduction (not to terminal measures, but overpopulation will be an
increasing difficulty) and, to me more importantly, a chance to step
back from the rush to orgasm (which, I think, is likely quite natural)
towards a more refined and delicate sensual capacity.


>Any sources you would recommend?  

I liked Alan Watts' _Nature: Man and Woman_, and Moffett's _Tantric Sex_
is stupendous.  Newage and neutantra books and seminars will likely
differ in terms of quality, but some that I have seen look quite wonderful,
especially where practical of suggestion and inclusive of women aspirants.

hsiwangmu
tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com
---------------------------

All the manifested universe is my teacher.  Here is a small white square,
blinking on my screen.  Here are people's words, those who struggle with
the same qualities of existence as I.  Here are the traces of life such
as the shooting stars of the autumn sky.

The trees demonstrate their wisdom.  The clouds move without moving.
-- 
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