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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.magick.order
From: 333 
Subject: Re: OTO and AA Connections (Re: Statement by the Highest Authority of the A.'.A.'.)
Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 10:19:38 GMT

50010705 VI! om Hail Satan! Happy Lunatix!

bheidrick@aol.com (B Heidrick) 
>93 [333],

E6!

333:
>> they expect there to be some influence based on dual-membership
>> (i.e. one may 'rise higher' in OTO based on AA involvement). as
>> lineages of the AA diversify, so also does the fragmentation of
>> OTO based on AA-loyalty become more likely).

> That was part of Jack Parson's problem, leading to his 
> resignation from OTO. More to it, of course.  

what was Parsons' relation to the AA? what more is there to it?

> Crowley was pretty determined to keep the two orders separate.

simultaneous membership of the head of one and the Grand Master
of the other by virtue of being one of the initial members in a
pyramidal progression doesn't seem like the best course to follow
to attain this separation. why did Crowley join the OTO and become
its head if he wanted it to be separate from the AA?

obviously he saw them as related, even if he wanted them separated.
the AA is described by "One Star in Sight", within a book (variously
"Magick in Theory and Practice", "Liber ABA, Book Four", et al) that
is well known for its content on the subject of Hermetic ceremonial
magic, and Crowley's magicK in particular. the O.T.O. is reputedly
concerned with the study of sex magick. this describes a confluence
of interests, at least, especially if one sees the AA as a vehicle
of attainment toward the objectives supported by OTO.

>See the quotes from Jack in Grady's letter at:
>http://www.cityol.com/heidrick/tlc2001/tlc0701.htm#ps4

very interesting. with what AA lineage was Jack affiliated?

>93 93/93

E666

 333

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From: bheidrick@aol.com (B Heidrick)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi
Date: 05 Jul 2001 11:37:53 GMT
References: <9i1etm$ku1@bolt.sonic.net>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: OTO and AA Connections (Re: Statement by the Highest Authority of the A.'.A.'.)
Message-ID: <20010705073753.03517.00003377@ng-fi1.aol.com>
Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:27444

93 Nagasiva,

>what was Parsons' relation to the AA? what more is there to it?

He may have been a member or an independent student of the curriculum -- I
don't know which.

As to the "more", Jack was investigated by OTO on charges of selling Crowley
TSS in a local bookstore, he had that Moonchild operation going, he called
Agape Lodge meetings for the degrees without involving Crowley in the plans, he
had difficulties with a business dealing involving a boat, gossip and his own
letters made Crowley suspect that he supported W.T.Smith in exile, his
interest moved toward witchcraft (too early to call it "wicca"), he wrote a
Gnostic Credo in bad format and competition to Crowley's, he had more money
than was socially safe in context of the people around him, he was fustrated by
the typical gossip of a small group, he had security clearance problems by
virtue of his associations, Crowley didn't like his poetry or his Oriflamme
edit, ...  the list goes on.  :-)

Also, Lodge Master Burnout after a couple years is not unusual.  People take on
a duty like that in the spirit of a freshman congressman.  The task is never as
it seems from the sidelines.  For all the talk about Thelema not being
democratic, there is nothing to do if you try to do everything, after a while.
People will vote with their feet and leave you high and dry unless you give
them a voice and interest them.  Not everybody, even every genius, has the
aptitude for a role of that kind.

>simultaneous membership of the head of one and the Grand Master
>of the other by virtue of being one of the initial members in a
>pyramidal progression doesn't seem like the best course to follow
>to attain this separation.

Tough to do, certainly.  Crowley tried, even so.

>why did Crowley join the OTO and become
>its head if he wanted it to be separate from the AA?

Same reason people get involved in more than one thing generally.  Some good
for this.  Some good for that.

>obviously he saw them as related, even if he wanted them separated.

Certainly they do supplement oneanother.  A.'.A.'. teaches without fee.  OTO
gathers with dues support for projects.  A.'.A.'. writes, OTO publishes. 
A.'.A.'. isolates to avoid social complications.  OTO convenes to explore
social development.

>very interesting. with what AA lineage was Jack affiliated?
>

I'm curious about that, but lack information.  Might have been self-study only.
 Jane Wolfe was there to proctor, but I haven't seen any A.'.A.'. oath forms
with Jack's name on them.  Given the language of that cite, Jack was advocating
study of A.'. A.'. matter, not membership.

93 93/93
Bill


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From: bheidrick@aol.com (B Heidrick)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Date: 05 Jul 2001 11:32:04 GMT
References: <9i1etm$ku1@bolt.sonic.net>
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: OTO and AA Connections (Re: Statement by the Highest Authority of the A.'.A.'.)
Message-ID: <20010705073204.03517.00003375@ng-fi1.aol.com>
Xref: typhoon.sonic.net alt.magick:251634

93 Nagasiva,

>what was Parsons' relation to the AA? what more is there to it?

He may have been a member or an independent student of the curriculum -- I
don't know which.

As to the "more", Jack was investigated by OTO on charges of selling Crowley
TSS in a local bookstore, he had that Moonchild operation going, he called
Agape Lodge meetings for the degrees without involving Crowley in the plans, he
had difficulties with a business dealing involving a boat, gossip and his own
letters made Crowley suspect that he supported W.T.Smith in exile, his
interestest moved toward witchcraft (too early to call it "wicca"), he wrote a
Gnostic Credo in bad format and competition to Crowley's, he had more money
than was socially safe in context of the people around him, he was fustrated by
the typical gossip of a small group, he had security clearance problems by
virtue of his associations, Crowley didn't like his poetry or his Oriflamme
edit, ...  the list goes on.  :-)

Also, Lodge Master Burnout after a couple years is not unusual.  People take on
a duty like that in the spirit of a freshman congressman.  The task is never as
it seems from the sidelines.  For all the talk about Thelema not being
democratic, there is nothing to do if you try to do everything, after a while.
People will vote with their feet and leave you high and dry unless you give
them a voice and interest them.  Not everybody, even every genius, has the
aptitude for a role of that kind.

>simultaneous membership of the head of one and the Grand Master
>of the other by virtue of being one of the initial members in a
>pyramidal progression doesn't seem like the best course to follow
>to attain this separation.

Tough to do, certainly.  Crowley tried, even so.

>why did Crowley join the OTO and become
>its head if he wanted it to be separate from the AA?

Same reason people get involved in more than one thing generally.  Some good
for this.  Some good for that.

>obviously he saw them as related, even if he wanted them separated.

Certainly they do supplement oneanother.  A.'.A.'. teaches without fee.  OTO
gathers with dues support for projects.  A.'.A.'. writes, OTO publishes. 
A.'.A.'. isolates to avoid social complications.  OTO convenes to explore
social development.

>very interesting. with what AA lineage was Jack affiliated?
>

I'm curious about that, but lack information.  Might have been self-study only.
 Jane Wolfe was there to proctor, but I haven't seen any A.'.A.'. oath forms
with Jack's name on them.  Given the language of that cite, Jack was advocating
study of A.'. A.'. matter, not membership.

93 93/93
Bill