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To: thelema93-l now @egroups.com From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (333 (nigris)) Subject: Order MEANS Order, Shape Up! 50000428 IVom a correspondent wrote: > ...although the interpretations of the oaths have been changed, HB finds it too > convenient to avoid informing the membership of what they now mean. He has > not commited them into writing and avoids discussing New Meaning with > members who might disagree with him. Such action is not upfront or clear > with his changes and this makes it impossible to second guess his > interpretations or avoid offending him.... I'm afraid that I do not understand your statement here. as I have been informed by (c)OTO officers of its highest status (internationale), the interpretation of any oaths within its initiation rites are subject to the particular experience of the initiate in QUESTION; these are NEVER mandated to hir. your supposition that 'the interpretations have been changed' is false, since there were never any Absolute Understandings to be found, issuing from any member from the highest to lowest. of course there are Official Interpretations, and these have been very CLEARLY specified as regards what the order expects of its membership (secrecy regarding the contents of the initiation rites being an important and sometimes controversial example). yet it has always been my understanding, again agreed by the Secretary and Treasurer of the order at least (implicit agreement was provided as regards the attitude of my Frater Superior Hymenaeus Beta), that the order would not enter into trying to control how individual members would understand or interpret the rites and oaths. this would be simply too authoritarian to be *believed*. >...If I am now told that the "real" meaning is actually Osirian >should I belive it? No!.... please let me know if you are informed how you must interpret the rituals you have experienced. until then, please understand them as you wish and act accordingly, understanding that if the order has a different protocol regarding their meaning it will act in response to any breach which it sees (thus making it valuable for you to know how it may interpret the rites if you wish to remain a member of good report). >...HB is a demi-god and total autocrat and can do whatever he >pleases with anyone in the Order. That is if they allow him to. >This is the point. That the Order pretends to be Thelemic is a >farce! The only Sin is Restriction and the entire organization >has become more sinful with each passing year and expulsion. dream on. our Frater Superior is neither a demi-god nor a total autocrat. if he was, I would have been silenced or expelled long ago for the various adversarial things I have said in public about our order. now granted that I am not of any escalated status therein (being but II'), but autocrats won't tolerate opposition of any vocal kind in their organizations, and I do not see evidence for the kind of control you ascribe. I witnessed what I understood to be my Brother Ebony refusing to be pushed around by this same hierarch, claiming to him at least twice that he would have to refuse him, and if there was further insistance Ebony would be forced, by Liber Oz, to get on a plane and come to kill the one insisting. I didn't think Ebony was joking and still don't. he was never expelled. your idea about HBeta being able to "do whatever he pleases with anyone in the order" is incredibly ridiculous! it is this kind of idiocy which is bound to lead to the exact cultism that I oppose (and which I hope the (c)OTO Boys also oppose -- I'm watching for signs). we're only talking about a fucking initiatory kinship order! all that they control is whether or not you are a member on good report!! got it? the worst they can do for your breaking their silly rules is kick you out and influence the cultists amongst us to shun you. if this happened you would be better off for having left such a weak- willed organization, trust me. those of us who have not been taken into the Crowleyanity would not shun you in the same way that I do not shun Frater Fernee (I still consider him a Brother and hope you do also). >It is sad that the currents within the OTO have effectively pushed many >strong Thelemites aside. It is almost impossible to be truly a Free Man >within its membership anymore. membership was never meant for free men, it was meant for those who are dedicated to the service to the rest of the order, bound through common values implied and specified within its initiation rites. the truly Free are the only ones capable of offering to become servants without resentment. be sure of your condition before you get into too deep. those who want Freedom without responsibility should go join the First Church of Satan or some comparable clubhouse in which delegated liberation is claimed without hard work and submission to the group making the result possible. >I fear that it is quickly becoming little more than an "I must >agree" club and this is not according to any Thelema based >formula. agreement as to the basic components of cooperation and security necessary for the promulgation of the Law to the world is a requirement for those who join in any depth of membership to the (c)OTO, and this is why only the dedicated and subservient should undertake to take on the burden of such degrees. we're not talking about anything but difficult work, and if there is some kind of false impression of spiritual evolution associated with the inner workings of this initiatic kinship org then it should be dashed to pieces as an inspirational tool for those without other incentives before it goes much further. as long as the order is a pyramid structure directed by a single individual (whether Caliph, King, Queen, Head, Frater Superior, Supreme Pontif, whatever she may be called), you must expect that those loyal to the organization and to its aims will be those who will continue to be associated with and succeed to the innermost workings of its administration. oaths which test for such loyalties and obtain the exclusion of those who are essentially opposed to the authority to which they have sworn are valuable litmus screens to purify the will of the order. if these lead to the expulsion of your favourite members, then that is just too bad. it is quite possible that you and your friends have put yourself in expulsion's way by involving yourself to the extent that you have. compare the order to a kind of SWAT Squad. those who are sideline supporters of the general objectives of this Squad do not have to be as well-groomed, trained, and intensely loyal to the Group Leader as those who are going into battle with hir. that she may tolerate no equivocation about this loyalty is NOT a function of whether this group is or is not "Thelemic", it just means that those who were not so loyal fucked up when they claimed to be so (if they did), or must depart when the ranks are combed to shake out the renegades. one of the unfortunate parts of this kind of initiatory organizations is that there is no 'backing out' where administrative authority is concerned. you can't say "oh, I didn't mean that oath, I'll go back to being a 2nd Degree member now, sorry", you're stuck trying to figure out whether you lied when you took it or whether you can live up to what you thought it meant. if the order thinks it meant something completely different, then you get to deal with that too. that's the fun of being in a 'secret society'. it sucks, and I am one of those working toward a change in the policies in this regard, but let's not get simplistic and equate administrative capacity and authoritative direction in a hierarchy with strict indicators of whether an order which employs them are "Thelemic". more often than not, this just demonstrates a poor understanding of what the term 'Thelema' can mean (which I would be happy to discuss with you here if you desire). >I shudder as I remember my Man of Earth grades and my pride >in such documents as Liber OZ. There is no OZ in the OTO >anymore.... pride in such meager documents as "Liber Oz" demonstrates a limited understanding of its application. it is not some blanket-protection against orgnanizations which control their membership boundaries and strive to interact in the world toward specified goals. it is a seed idea for the PROTECTION OF THE INDIVIDUAL CITIZEN FROM A GOVERNMENT WHICH ACCEPTS IT (and other powerful tools of the Herd) AGAINST DOMINATING THEM. that it may be valued within the (c)OTO says nothing about its place therein. Invoke me under my stars. > Love is the law, love under will. nigris (333)
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