THE
ARCANE
ARCHIVE
a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


TOP | SOCIETIES | GOLDEN DAWN

Objectively Studying the GD

To: alt.magick,alt.magick.order,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.thelema,alt.pagan.magick
From: "Fr. A.o.C." 
Subject: Re: Objectively Studying the GD
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 02:08:50 GMT

aethyr augoeides wrote:
 
> 333 wrote:
> > 50030222 VII
> >
> > RE:
> >
> >>>>>>It makes PERFECT sense.  It's just not the G.D.
> >
> > aethyr augoeides :
> >
> >>>>>Who gets to decide this?
> >
> > do as you please.
> >
> >>>>>You? Why?
> >
> > he apparently pleases.
> >
> >>>>>How do you know?
> >
> > he's explained at length.
>
> he talked at length, he didn't explain anything.
> 
> > Re O'Stat :
> >
> >>>>Anyone who OBJECTIVELY studies the GD would know.
> >>>
> >  Joshua Geller:
> >
> >>>Please explain how this is done.  Be terse.
> >>

I think what Josh is pointing out here is the difficulty in OBJECTIVELY
studying anything which is as subjective as an esoteric system. That's
how I took it anyway.

> > astral and physical initiation into proper lineages
> > utilizing the criteria solidifying identification
> > supported by extensive studies of systems beyond this.

That still doesn't really say anything, not without a common set of
definitions. This has been the problem all along.

Define "proper lineage". What (or whose) "criteria"? What determines
"identification" (i.e. what are the identifying aspects?)

There's a terrific amount of 'gray area' and applying different criteria
are going to give different answers. One could argue that there is
absolutely no Golden Dawn today at all, because its leader dissolved the
group 100 years ago, and all the direct lines of 'apostolic succession'
died out by 1970.

Or one could argue that there are many, many thousands, for anyone can
attain to genuine self-initiation into the system. All magical
initiations are within the self anyway, and so they are every bit as
valid and effective as any kind of initiation.

Applying different criteria gives radically different answers, in this
case. 

What Re doesn't do is say much about his criteria. If he did, he could
argue the criteria: "I think that the redaction of Westcott and Mathers
is the canonical Golden Dawn system because...", and proceed to describe
the line of reasoning (or intuition) that brought him to that
conclusion. That might be a useful discussion. Though I fear he would
end the sentence, "...because it IS."

"That's not an argument!"
"Yes it is!"
"No it's not, you're just contradicting me!"
"No I'm not!" ...etc.

Myself, I rotate the extreme viewpoints on Sundays, Tuesdays and
Thursdays, throw dice to determine a random intermediate belief-state on
Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, and reserve Saturdays for pure
materialistic determinism and hard drinking.

- Fr. A.o.C.


"Our gods are dead.  Klingon warriors slew them, millennia ago. They
were more trouble than they were worth."  -- Worf, son of Mogg

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist: tyaginator@arcane-archive.org.

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.

SEARCH THE ARCANE ARCHIVE

There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase

OTHER ESOTERIC AND OCCULT SITES OF INTEREST

Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races