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Thelema and Prophets

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.thelema,alt.pagan.magick,talk.religion.misc
From: 333 
Subject: Thelema and Prophets 
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 09:38:39 GMT

someone asked what numerolinguistics using the Book of the Law 
              has to do with Thelema.

	* it relates to the subject of the Book of the Law
	  the Evul Book has by Crowleyites been mistaken for
	  an expression pertaining *to* Thelema but instead
	  really functions as an insertion of Thelemic
	  character to quasi-masonic frameworks for the
	  purposes of religious diversification in the
	  application of "Volumes of Sacred Law".

	  it therefore qualifies for the more cultic aspects
	  of Thelemic subjects (Crowleyan scripture) and may
	  be discerned by the adepti where possible as symbols
	  implying greater mysteries.

	* it relates to the greater subject of magic

	  for one reason or another 'Thelema' has also become
	  associated with occultism (probably because of the
	  confusion surrounding the expression of Crowley and
	  the integral role volition probably plays in magic),
	  and one will often find discussion on occult topics
	  such as magic (/magick) and alchemy in Thelemic
	  forums. usage of particular types of numerology,
	  often mistakenly characterized as 'qabalah', will
	  also appear herein.

mystics of the quasi-masonic, Rosicrucian type have for many years
presumed to project upon the cosmos an origin and structure which
conforms to their ambiguous and symbolic scriptures. these ideologies
are fomented by a variety of Old Aeon religious and undergirded by 
little confirmable evidence.

that said, it is relevant to Thelema to discuss particular and
peculiar manifestations of cultic activities and theory that
becomes associated with this term. in part the comparison and
contrast with preferred notions of the term's meaning becomes
an exchange which showcases the extreme and untenable along
with that which may be considered conventional and conservative.

it is relevant to Thelemites at large because many of those who
call themselves by this name are actually Crowleyan cultists
and have accepted theories about 'keys' from Rosicrucian sources
inclusive of Crowley and associated these with whatever they
think 'Thelema' means. to the extent that those inclusive of 
such cultists may wish to understand the diversity being utilized 
in expression that surrounds the term, it becomes relevant to 
note what some quarters (such as Prophet 718) designate in 
association with 'keys' and in particular to those they may 
present to the world at large.

when inquiring as to whether individual expositions about 'Secret
Keys' and of 

> In other words, how is this not in some way similar to the internal
> politics and whatnot that are tangentally related to the subject of
> Thelema, but are not implicitly part and parcel to the subject itself?

internal politics usually pertains to established social traditions
or 'orders' (formed in mimicry of Freemasonic or Roman Catholic orgs).
mystical discoveries, such as the Secret Keys to the Universe, are
quite possibly very directly included in the subject of Thelema if
one presumes as an axiom that the term relates to some operating
'Current' which has a direct influence on or constitutes the standard
by which present-day mystics ought to conduct their operations.

> Do you personally have anything to contribute to the subject or 
> discussion of Thelema that does not in some way relate to your 
> prophethood?

Prophets of Thelema are better seen as distributors of information
which pertains to Thelema as they see it, and are therefore quite
specifically relevant to the subject of Thelema per se. if nothing
else they are examples of what is associated with the term.

> Beyond that, how is prophethood itself relevant at all to Thelema 
> when any Tom, Dick, or Tyagi can declare themselves a prophet and 
> the assembled throngs can't do anything at all to refute it?

being a principle of individualism promulgated by co-optive agents
(all organizations are vampiric to individuals in their operation),
Thelema is exemplified through solitary exposition of insight into
the nature and character of the principle itself (which may well
incorporate notions of keys and qabalahs for their purposes).

> Note I'm asking not for a defense of your system (and believe me, we've
> seen that ad nauseum), but rather something that somehow makes this all
> relevant to someone interested in Thelema but doesn't give a rat's ass
> about "Rebel Kitty."

by the nature of Thelema itself, a great deal of information pertaining
to what any particular subgroup or individual considers relevant will
be seen as extravagant, extreme, ridiculous, and unmeritable of attention,
though the linguistic composite may be analyzed for rational association
(i.e. do they use the term 'Thelema' somehow in their exposition? does
it form part of a body of knowledge, however extreme or centered on any
particular individual/prophet? etc.).

while you and others may not be interested in the sayings and doings of
various "Thelemic Prophets" providing all manner of information to our
mailboxes that has little or no relevance to our preferred understandings,
the fact of their conceptual inherence qualifies their expression within
any forum dedicated to "Thelema by any understanding", including this one,
and objections to their inclusion are best referred to email-filters 
rather than attempting to reduce the expansive inclusivity of the agreed
topical focus.

thus it is in Thelema93-L that we will occasionally hear conversation on
such diverse topics as:

	* philosophies of will ('thelema')

	* religions both old and new associating with the term 

	* magical techniques and ideologies associating with the term 

	* rituals prescribed by religious and magical organizations 

	* ideology espoused by organizations or individual prophets 

	* tangental works originating with those identifying with the term 

in the case of Prophet 718 and Rebel Kitty, disagreement with knowledge 
constructs espoused by Thelemic prophets is insufficient to warrant 
relegating it to the 'unrelated topic' status; and for this reason all
manner of whackiness may be seen in this forum (from the ravings of
people like Brother Zero and other Thelemic Prophets; to the more 
conservative expressions of Thelemic Devotees like Magdelena Meretrix,
David Jones, and Joseph Thiebes; or the variable contentions of Thelemic 
Philosophers such as VIMaroney, Julianus, Nigris, or RevRob).

Invoke me under my stars.

(I knew we'd get to the issue of Zealotry sooner or later! 
 damn this is late! apologies for delay/dupes)

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