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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.thelema,talk.religion.misc
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva)
Subject: Various: Crowley's Progeny
Date: 20 Dec 1997 15:09:46 -0800

[technical difficulties enforced delay -- edited slightly for format]

Bill Heidrick :

93,

Christeos Pir  wrote:

quoting me:

>>A.A.MacA. was Crowley's only surviving son, and OTO had
>>agreed to look after him.
>
>Whatever became of him? I heard he wanted nothing to do with 
>the Order, his father's rep, and the whole shebang...?

Last I heard he was still knocking about London, not in good health or
material circumstances.  His children are in touch.
  Aleister Attaturk spent some of his teen years in California, with OTO
members from Agape Lodge.  He was deported for failure to pay a medical
debt (Germer refused to pay it, actually).  Up to that time A.A. (not
A.'.A.'.) had made some effort to attract a following in OTO as Crowley's
successor, utterly without success.  He later attempted to help convince
Germer to allow resumption of OTO initiations and temple work, also without
success and possibly contributing to Germer's refusal to pay his medical
bills.  After that, in Paris and London, he occasionally attempted to 
argue for a role as successor to The Beast, but that petered out in 
the 1980's e.v.

==================================================================

Bill Heidrick :

  ZAIN11@aol.com wrote:

>Heidrick wrote:
>
>>>Jean, survived Max and lived with Aleister Attaturk MacAlpine for 
>>>some years in California.  A.A.MacA. was Crowley's only surviving 
>>>son, and OTO had agreeded to look after him.
>
>I'm curious. Where is Aleister Attaturk MacAlpine, and where did 
>the Attaturk MacAlpine come from ?

See my other post.  As to origins, Aleister Attaturk was the natural son of
Aleister Crowley and Patricia MacAlpine, in England.  Mother and son were
in touch with Crowley until Crowley died in 1947 e.v., visiting
occasionally.  A.C. cast astrological charts regarding A.A.M.'s health and
welfare and formally requested Agape Lodge in California to look after him.
 A.A.M. was apprenticed as a cook at the time of Crowley's Greater Feast.
Frieda Harris was in touch both with Crowley and the MacAlpines in the
1940's, expressing considerable interest and concern in her letters from
1947 e.v.  Although I don't know it for a fact, I suspect Frieda was
instrumental in Aleister Attaturk's coming to California.

============================================================

~From: Bill Heidrick 

93,

 "David R. Jones"  wrote, quoting me:

>> >>Jean, survived Max and lived with Aleister Attaturk MacAlpine 
>> >>for some years in

>This is the Jean Shivonen that was contacted at the beginning 
>of the orders reformation in 77 right?

Right, after Max died and a time living with Aleister Attaturk, she married
Brother Shivonen.  He died eventually and she remarried for a third time.
Some of this history may have contributed to Germer's strange charge that
she was a "vampire" -- although Karl had a similar history of changing and
dying mates himself.

>The MacAlpine is his mothers name I believe, saw a picture of her once in
>the archives.  Hate to be a bit sexist here but boy what a babe.

Considering Crowley's age, the old Beast didn't do at all bad in his later
years. :-)

=============================================================

rib0707@iperbole.bologna.it (Massimo):

93

>Wow, this is 180 degrees from what I've heard; in fact, I'd almost 
>swear that I've seen a book by him, published overseas, claiming 
>that he was in possession of the *real* copy of Liber AL; that 
>Crowley distributed a fake copy to the world (the one we all know).  
>Of course, this was a while back, and I may very well be 
>remembering something (or everything) wrong.  As well, I may be 
>confusing several stories.  Does this book ring a bell with anyone
>else?

This is not Aleiser Ataturk, but AMADO CROWLEY 777, who wrote at least
three books (THE SECRETS OF ALEISTER CROWLEY, THE RIDDLES OF ALEISTER
CROWLEY, THE WRATH OF ALEISTER CROWLY - and next? - one of them  really
homophobic) and who in 70's wrote to Man Myth and Magic claiming to be AC's
magical and physycal heir. I once discussed the man with Michael Staley,
who met him in the 70s, and he told me that, whatever his father really was
(AC could have left some babies here and there, couldn't he?) the main
issue was that Amado stated that somehow HE was the real prophet of the New
Era, and that his father was to him some kind of John the Baptist :-)
And yes, he's got the *real* liber AL, found in an egyptian cave/tomb and
carefully obtained by pasting together all those little pieces of papyrus
which had been thrown into the air as they entered the secret hiding where
the book had been left by the survivors of some lost
civilization/cult/tradition/blah blah blah

=================================================================

~From: Bill Heidrick 

93,

Christeos Pir  asked, quoting me:

>>His children are in touch.
>
>With him, or with the Order?

Both with Aleister Attaturk and the OTO.  Nothing major.

=============================================================

EOF
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