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To: alt.magick
From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM (Hsi Wang Mu)
Subject: The A.'.A.'.  (9408.the-aa-.hwm2)
Date: 49940812

Quoting: |gpeters@netcom.com (Gregory Peters) 
         |>Hsi Wang Mu

|Perhaps it would help me understand where you are coming from if you 
|answered a few questions.

Ok, but realize that I don't claim to represent anyone but my own, meager,
ignorant self and my experience.


|What do you mean by A.'.A.'.?  

Usually when I speak of the AA I am asking people like you questions about
the claims which you are making, either publically or in private.  I have
noticed that Crowley has written a fair amount on the subject and so I will
sometimes refer to his concept 'the AA'.  I am not sure if the name precedes
Crowley, though I think I've read at least one viewpoint that it does.

When reading Crowley I interpreted him to be referring to many things at
once when speaking of the AA.  I found that his words applied not only to
a potential physical order, a sort of chain of initiates (and this was
long before I truly understood the implications of _Liber LXI_), but also
to what has been called by Case the 'Invisible Rosicrucian Order' as well
as what has been referred to as the 'Body of Christ' by some mystics. 

This apparently incorporates the concept of the Great White Brotherhood (GWB),
in that Crowley's(?) 'Secret Chiefs' (SC) seem rather directly parallel if not
identical.  I imagine (perhaps foolishly) that the Christian mystics who
understood the nature of the Body of Christ (BoC) would have used different
terminology, perhaps 'Guardian Angels' or merely 'Angels' to describe the
same August Administration.


|What is your understanding or conception of the Order?

This is a very broad question, and so I can only touch on some of the main
points.  I think that Crowley gives an adequate description of the AA within
his 'One Star in Sight'.  I've peered at this doc a few times and enjoyed
its ambiguity with respect to referent.

I don't have one 'understanding or conception' of the Order.  I think that
like the phrase 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law', all
interpretations of it are true if but the reader be illuminated.  I do not
know that incoherent interpretations, however, are truly worth consideration.

All this said, for myself I can only say that I know only my superior and
that She has not yet instructed me as to the specific structure of the Order
or its history.  I understand that, while She calls it by another name
('The Celestial Masters'(CM)), She has indicated that Crowley's description 
is a valuable one in understanding Her role and position with respect to me.

I am instructed that the Order takes many forms, operates within many
different dimensions, and instructs in so many different ways that many
students don't even know that they are being educated.  Some *instructors*
don't even know that they are members.
 

|What is your conception of the A.'.A.'. *prior* to Crowley?  

This of course depends on what you mean by 'the AA'.  If you mean Crowley's
particular social, physical organization, then I have no idea about its
history (or its present state, I might add).  This is something I'd like
to find out from *you*.

If you mean the Order which Crowley was describing that transcends mere
social chains, then my understanding is that it has been around as long
as humans have formed societies, instructing and reflecting our innermost
Mysteries to those who have the eyes to see.  

Of this latter Order (the Order of Kaos as it manifests in my life),
Crowley may well have experienced it, and his writings indicate to me
that this is quite possible.  I do not have confirmation on the matter
and I'm not sure what would for me constitute such confirmation.

--

I wish to make it clear that the questions below are very broad and
would require entire documents to respond with any adequacy.  I think
that the questions I have asked you were capable of being answered
with simple paragraphs, and that your response with these questions
below is a slight dodge on your part.  I shall, nevertheless, attempt
to express my ignorance to the cosmos....

|And, what is your conception of the Crowley/Jones manifestation or 
|interpretation of A.'.A.'.?

I know very little about it.  I am presuming here that you mean the
social organization initiated by Crowley.  I don't really know about
much about Achad and would love to hear more.  I gather (from recent
interviews with AAmembers, out of which I may make a series of
articles) that Crowley is purported to have initiated several people
for a social AA.  This is what I figured you were talking about and
what I'd like to know more about generally.

I'd hoped that you'd also have understood the more metaphorical
understanding of the AA (as the GWB and BoC).  Perhaps you did.


|What is your interpretation of: _Liber 185_, _Liber 13_, _One Star in 
|Sight_, and what do you feel their relationship or relevance is to 
|A.'.A.'. (specifically, the Crowley/Jones A.'.A.'.)

I will not give an evaluation of these documents here.  It is too great
a task to seriously analyze them.  I will say that I'm not sure I've ever
read _Liber CLXXXV_, since I can't find it in my library, and have not 
spent much time scouring _Liber XIII_ and so am sure I don't have a full
comprehension of that document.  

This is why I say I am a poor student where the AA is concerned.  Often
my studies proceed from interested preview to interested interview (what
is happening with you and others now and has been for several years) to
serious study and analysis.  Too many times I've attempted serious study
without the pertinent documents at hand.  Eventually I'd like to see an
article on the breakdown of the organization of the Celestial Masters
from old taoist sources, for example, in order to compare and contrast.

As for the relevance of Crowley's writings on the AA, as I have said
above I think it all depends what sort of AA you are talking about.  You
seem rather set on the CJAA (Crowley/Jones).  Fine.  As I said, I don't
know much about it and would like to know more.  I don't think that
what Crowley wrote is necessarily true regarding the AA with which he
may have become involved (i.e. what I'd call the AA/GWB/BoC/CM).  He
could have got some particulars wrong.  

I'd imagine that he could set into motion any sort of social order that
he liked, however, and so the CJAA may well reflect all of the elements
that he laid out in the documents you mention.


|If you would indulge me a little with answering these questions, maybe 
|I'll get a clue ;)  At least I will be better able to determine where our 
|definitions do and do not correspond.

I have 'indulged' you now, and I hope that you will go back and address
each of my questions that I put to you earlier (preferrably restating
them so that I can see what you are answering).  

My method with people who claim to be members of the AA is to challenge 
from one perspective, then another (i.e. from the perspective of the AA 
being the CJAA or the perspective that it is the GWB/BoC/CM).  I do this
in part because I wish to know precisely what the individual is talking
about (you'd be surprised how many people that claim to be 'members of
the AA' don't know anything but Crowley's writings, for example).

I also wish to know how much of the CJAA conforms to the alternative,
so I am not specifically being manipulative or 'silly'.  I truly wish
to know more about any organization which associates in any way with
Crowley's writings or with other people's writings on any of the orgs
which I am instructed are identical to it on some level.

Your critique of my ignorant offering here is welcomed.  I am sure that
my suspicions and gleanings regarding the Celestial Masters is imperfect
and incomplete.  As before, I am instructed to take nobody's word at face
value, to seriously question where the AA is concerned, and to make as
much of it public as possible in conformity to my vows.

Do as you please, for love is the law.

Mu
tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com