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To: thelema93-l@HOLLYFELD.ORG (Thelema93-Listserv)
From: tyagi@HOUSEOFKAOS.ABYSS.COM (xiwangmu)
Subject: Re: Satanic Thelema?
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 12:39:41 -0700 (PDT)

49960730 AA1 LUNAtix! taking instruction from kin in italy, it seems.  welcome!

Do as you please, oh chosen ones!
Hail Satan!


LilWing623@AOL.COM:
#> I believe that we can't have Satanist Thelemites of course, we have 
#> much in common as we can't have buddist Thelemites


vincent@mv.village.it [warning given re: english not being first language]:
#hi,i don't belive that may be satanist Thelemites because or you are a 
#Thelemites or you aren't, you couldn't have two feet into a shoe

I hear you saying that there are Thelemites regardless of whether they
consider themselves 'Satanist' or 'Buddhist' or whatever.  possibly more,
you are saying that Satanism and Thelemism are mutually exclusive, as are
Buddhism and Thelemism (though this latter claim is less clear), in that
the former err through particularity, the usage twin-barbed and mayhaps
of different class.


#The 93 corrent is one ,one is our canon of truth ,one the prophet ,the 
#others may be open oppossed to the Thelema(as christian curch)or may be 
#no opposition but they aren't thelemites ,the condition that enables a 
#man to call himself a thelemites is that he must acept the Book Of Law 
#as the supreme canon of truth with all the subsequent implications

I wonder of the meaning of these words such that we might be strapped to
a particular book (rather than, say, a mystic and personal 'Book of Law'
as may be described and adhered-to within masonic fraternities).  is it
that a person calls *themselves* 'Thelemite', or as the Evil Book itself
dictates, "Who calls us Thelemites"?  is this assessment best made by the 
individual (thus fabricating a cult resorting to the terminology of which 
you speak below), or by those who have been subject to their will, an awed 
admission of the stature of another?

and when we say 'one current, one canon of truth, one prophet', do we mean
that we have identified and particularized these (93, Liber Al, ACrowley),
or that there is an identity of character within the currents, canons and
prophets upon which Thelemites lavish their attentions, support with their 
blood, and study with full attention (perhaps transcending materiality)?

is it thus a 'privelege' (single law) that those who, like the religious
the world over mouthing adherence to their holy books as 'the best truth',
'identify with the righteous' ("I am a Thelemite"), or is it better,
like the taoist 'sage', to leave this attribution to others in our wakes,
us unfettered by strict allegiances to labels, books and flags, teachers
and practical systems, which even the text below points out as extreme?


#(i try to expain wit a cit.) liber LXI vel causae
#paragraph 22
#(translating from an italian version)
#expecialy he have to be aware to found of particular settar symbols on 
#the teaching of their master

_Liber LXI vel Causae_ concerns the A.'.A.'. and its structure and history.

Paragraph 22 reads as follows [my comments in brackets]:

		Therefore by the order of D.D.S. [GCJones - GD]
		did P. [Perdurabo - ACrowley] prepare all things
		by his arcane science and wisdom, choosing only
		those symbols which were common to all systems,
		and rigourously rejecting all names and words
		which might be supposed to imply any religious
		or metaphysical theory.  To do this utterly was
		found impossible, since all language has a
		history, and the use (for example) of the word
		"spirit" implies the Scholastic Philosophy and
		the Hindu and Taoist theories concerning the
		breath of man.  [prana and chi respectively]
		So was it difficult to avoid implication of some
		undesirable bias by using the words "order,"
		"circle," "chapter," "society," "brotherhood,"
		or any other to designate the body of initiates.

I agree with you about the care of founding a particular set of symbols
on the teachings of their master (the master who gave these particular
symbols; also a generic in regards fabrication of such a system -- in
that we may create such a system ourselves when suitably prepared),
but I'm unsure that 

		1) Liber LXI vel Causae concerns 'Thelema' per se
		   except as a description of a particular Thelemic 
		   system (namely the AA), 

		2) these paragraphs you cite indicate so much that the
		   specific master should be sought out so much as that
		   all linguistic derivations must remain suspect by 
		   virtue of cultural bias, or 

		3) their master need be strictly defined in some
		   rigid and historical mode (ACrowley, Gautama
		   Buddha, Lao Tzu, etc.).
 

#paragraf 23 the ritual will speaks with terms that seem imply the 
#egyptian philosophy ,taoist,buddhist,indian,persian, greek....
#but he will understand that this only a fault of the language;letteral 
#limitations and not spiritual prejudice of the man P.

#Vincenzo

Paragraph 23 states:

		Deliberately, therefore, did he take refuge in
		vagueness.  Not to veil the truth to the Neophyte,
		but to warn him against valuing non-essentials.
		Should therefore the candidate hear the name of
		any God, let him not rashly assume that it refers 
		to any known God, save only the God known to himself.  
		Or should the ritual speak in terms of however vague) 
		which seem to imply Egyptian, Taoist, Buddhist, Indian, 
		Persian, Greek, Judaic, Christian, or Moslem philosophy, 
		let him refelect that this is a defect of language; the 
		literary limitation and not the spiritual prejudice of 
		the man P. [Perdurabo - ACrowley])

I would also continue with paragraph 24:

		Especially let him guard against the finding of 
		definite sectarian symbols in the teaching of his
		master, and the reasoning from the known to the
		unknown which assuredly will tempt him. 

		We labour earnestly, dear brother, that you may
		never be led away to perish upon this point; for
		thereon have many holy and just men been wrecked.
		By this have all the visible systems lost the
		essence of wisdom.

		We have sought to reveal the Arcanum; we have 
		only profaned it.

		all quoters from _Gems from the Equinox_, p. 9.
		_________________________________________________

in an argument as to whether there may be 'Satanist Thelemites' or
'Buddhist Thelemites', therefore, we must first accept that this
text truly *applies* to the conditions of 'a Thelemite'.  given
that a lection regarding the character of the AA does so, and this
particular text is accurate, your assertion would appear to be that
such descriptions err in that they are not *vague* enough, not
sufficiently vague as to 'warn the Neophyte against the non-
essentials', perhaps even that they err by virtue of bias.

yet I would ask, what is it but this same lack of vagueness which
leads the individual to *claim to be a Thelemite*, adhere to a 
specific text as "the one canon of Thelema", identifying it as 
_Liber Al vel Legis_, follows in the terminology and footfalls
(as well as traps!) of the Master Therion, and generally makes up
a *new religion* with which to befuddle onself, mislead the 
Neophyte, and eradicate that 'troublesome, wearisome, horrible
vaguery?!'

why can't those we deem 'Thelemites' be not of a particular
religious or doctrinal persuasion but instead of different
cultural *flavors*, perhaps 'buddhist' or 'satanist', while
understanding (rationally or merely in their hearts) the 
Law of Thelema as a principle of respect aside of culture,
religion, 'name and word'?  

in the same way we describe ice cream by flavors, "chocolate",
"strawberry", "doublefudge-nut", so the ice cream itself stays
true to texture, fiber and quality (if the brand be well-chosen), 
so too why cannot a Thelemite be "satanist", "christian", 
"horusian", "gnostic catholic", and yet retain the texture, fiber 
and quality regardless of each of these 'flavors'??

I'm sure there is text from the Master Therion to support this 
notion though I care not presently to seek it out for you.

love is the law, free love right now!
 
tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com
mu