a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


OTO Dispute

To: (Peter Koenig)
From: (nigris (333))
Subject: Re: OTO Dispute (Am/UK/Swiss/NZ/LAm)
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:25:02 -0700 (PDT)

49960917 AA1  Hail Satan!  (cc'd to Br. Heidrick)


#From: Bill Heidrick 
#As before, this is all my personal talk without prejudice to OTO.

most omitted in this sending.  I'm intending to tail off this discussion
now with only a few minor points which I also have interest in pursuing.

Br. Koenig (edited by nigris):
#>Andrea Lacedonia Bacuzzu.  She was sent over to Europe
#>to install an independent Grand Lodge.
#Nonsense.  Andrea made arrangements to go to Europe to resume initiations,
#pursuant to the last OTO document Grady signed on his death bed.  She didn't
#make it in time, but Tony Iannotti did it in her place.  Later, she moved
#to Europe to live with her husband J.Bacuzzu in Lugano.  Andrea helped with
#initiations for a while but retired from involvement for several years.
#She is more active again, but no longer living with Bacuzzu or using his name.

I thought you might want to have an alternative view of this, Br. Koenig.

#>#> Thus Germer considered Metzger as his sole successor, as he wrote
#>#> in a letter and as was confirmed by Germer's widow.

#># This letter doesn't exist, as far as I know.

#># I can send you a copy.  I have even published it in my 'Materialien 
#># Zum OTO'.

#I saw that book, but not this letter.

#>if you'd like a copy of this I'll ask him to send you one.
#I'd be happy to look at it....

Br. Koenig, please send me a copy of that letter at your next convenience 
(along with the highlighted excerpt of the Germer Will showing direct
succession) and I will make a copy of it available to Br. Heidrick (my
address appended to this document once more).

#># Agape Lodge officially was closed on 7 September 1953.
#>Br. Heidrick, do you have any idea what Br. Koenig means by 'officially'
#>here?  I gather he thinks there was some formal closure.
#Odd that that isn't in the Lodge records.  Where does Peter get this one?

I'd like to know that also.  Br. Koenig, how did you determine that the
Agape Lodge officially closed on that date?

#>[given that] Br. Koenig's claim that Crowley's
#>lineage was a 'breakaway group' is accurate, doesn't it seem logical to you 
#>that this business about 'caliphs' would remain in contention?
#Even if the Crowley lineage of OTO was break-away, which I do not consider
#to be correct in any sense, that would have no effect on the succession
#within Crowley's line of OTO itself, including the term "Caliph".

isn't this true, Br. Koenig?  it is something which I didn't understand of
your mention previously.  there appear to be several issues here which you
have at times brought together as multi-pointed spears against the 
Caliphate OTO (as to its legitimacy in regards the EGC, the OTO, and
even to its own succession).  do you have some reason for this composite,
or are you simply opposed to the existence of the Caliphate OTO on all
those grounds and sought to make this clear?

#># PROOF????!  I want to see the original statute which rules such.
#>is there such proof of this, Br. Heidrick?  is there something in the
#>Constitution of the Order or some other text which supports this 
#>correspondence betwixt gnostic succession and Order initiations?

#...I am an officer of OTO and say so regarding the practices over 
#which I have a measure of supervision.  I am a member and give witness 
#that I was so initiated and so consecrated.  Although these things 
#have recent memorial in the Bylaws, this question is a little like 
#asking a duck to prove he's a duck.  I'm unclear about the question
#regarding gnostic succession.  Papus or the ancient Gnostics?  No record
#of most of the actual consecrations as separate consecrations in my hand in
#either case -- other than Papus himself, of course -- Tau Vincent as noted
# earlier.  Papus was the head of OTO for France, and we have information that
#he passed it on.  It was published as such in Papus' life time by Reuss
#and Crowley, without Papus' objection to accuracy of that publication.  I
#understand that there may be some additional paper on Crowley's getting it,
#but I don't have that.  I believe Fr. H.B. either does or knows where it may
#be, but I don't have it.

I'm not sure I understand this completely, but I'd like to hear your
commentary on it, Br. Koenig.

#># Where?  On which part of McMurtry's body did Crowley lay his hand?
#The same place Grady layed his hands on me.  That's all you get -- it
#was above the waist and below the ceiling.
#>#># As to Crowley being a Bishop, this is what he was within OTO. 
#># PROOF?!
#>I'd like to see responses to Br. Koenig's questions above.
#Read the Gnostic Mass for the claim, unrefuted by Reuss who translated and
#published it in German.  The word "Bishop" is not used, but the function is

your response, Br. Koenig, would be welcome.

#># Nonsense.  I have Crowley's VII' rituals, and they are void of such.
#># Heidrick does not(!) have the VII' Crowley OTO ritual, and therefore
#># this is a projected fantasy.  I am looking at the ritual as I write
#># this email and I assure you, they are devoid of anything related to
#># Gnosticism.
#>Br. Heidrick, why would Br. Koenig claim to have Crowley-OTO rites
#>which you, ostensibly a/the lineage of Crowley-OTO, do not have?
#>I understand that rites between III' and IX' were fairly recently
#>(re?) constructed by the Caliphate, isn't this true?

#...Crowley wrote an outline and partial draft of the VIIth in the final 
#form, although there were earlier rituals.  Fr. H.B. elaborated the 
#ritual from that.  Initiations Minerval through VIth were completed in
#Crowley's hand, and those are the ones we have continually used.
#VIIth through XIth were not completed in final form by Crowley, although
#some ancillary rituals exist in those degrees, in full.

Br. Koenig, is this also your understanding?  are the rites you have
not "complete in final form" (whatever Br. Heidrick may mean by this)?

#>where do you draw evidence for the conclusion that the Gnostic succession
#>was at some point drawn into the initiations of the freemasonic OTO?  did
#>Crowley write initiations where are not now being used by the Caliphate?
#>was it Crowley (with Reuss-objection) who joined the Gnostic-OTO lines?
#From the rites and usages of the ritual, as well as the instructions for
#the Gnostic mass and the continuous practice of OTO.  Reuss merged the
#Gnostic Catholic Church with OTO -- it was there when Crowley joined, as
#noted in the earlier matter in the _Oriflamme_.

Br. Koenig, comment welcome.

#># Where in the IX' papers is the Bishop connected to the OTO secrets?
#>I'm unsure of the significance of the question but would like to hear a 

#Peter knows damn well that I couldn't answer such a question positive or
#negative regarding the instructive documents of that degree without breaking
#my oath.

Br. Koenig, given that Br. Heidrick is restricted by his oaths from answering,
where do you think that it *might* be so placed?  that is, *if* there is a
connection between Bishop and the OTO IX' secrets, say someone slipped it in
somewhere, then where might it be best placed?

#># PROOF?  Since when does one 'receive' the IXth degree?  Knowledge of the
#># 'secrets' was enough in the original days (and paying [fees?] of course).
#># Only when Heidrick found out that the 'secrets' are 'common knowledge'
#># he linked to the IX'.  To the possession of 'the emblems and mode of use'
#># and a paper signed by the 'Caliphate'.  this, seen from the perspective
#># of the original OTO, is nonsense.
#>Reuss, I think, passed on the UK Kingship to Crowley on the basis of 
#>having printed 'secrets' in his _Book of Lies..._.  why isn't what 
#>Br. Koenig saying here accurate?
#Reuss also required Crowley to take high Masonic degree via Yarker before
#he would admit Crowley to the IXth.  He did admit him.  All this was
#long after the publication and the confrontation.  What's the problem?
#There's even a published procedure and a different set of fees for such
#things in a pulled draft of the OTO material in the _Blue Equinox_ --
#pulled after the failure of mutual recognition plea by Reuss to the
#United Grand Lodge of England.  That's in the OTO file at the London
#UGL library.

Br. Koenig, do you have access to that information?  do you agree that
there is more to the 'reception' of the IXth degree than merely knowing
the secrets, but that one would also (in exchange for authority within
the Order) be required to accept restrictions on that authority as for
its dedication, use, etc.?

#>I would like to know if you are aware when these initiations began 
#>including bishopric consecration, or if they had this even during 
#>the Kellner/Reuss times.

#Reuss, yes.  Kellner probably died before the merger.

is this also your understanding, Br. Koenig?

thank you for your time,


nigris (333)

#>My address for Brother Koenig to send copy (highlighted please) of text 
#>of the Germer will which expressly dictates succession:

nigris (333)
Haus Kaos
871 Ironwood Dr.
San Jose, CA 95125-2815

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist:

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.


There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase


Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races