THE |
|
a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects. |
To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,alt.satanism,alt.magick.tantra From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nigris (333)) Subject: Misc. Thelemic Excerpts (on lhp, initiation, gender) Date: 17 Feb 1997 12:36:06 -0800 49970217 AA1 Hail Satan! (compiling queries for a single post) E6 "Alexander Rezanov": # What is the difference between a thelemic Path and a left-hand Path? a left-hand path may be thelemic yet need not be so. a thelemic path may be left-handed yet need not be so. they are not directly related excepting in some lexicons or personal usages. 'left-hand' typically relates to the taboo, repressed, sexual, feminine or controversial acts or systems. 'thelemic' typically relates to individualism, ACrowley, various commonly prescribed rites and texts within the social group that identifies with this name, etc. the latter comment could also be made about the originally Indian vamamarg sects -- what is identified as 'vamamarg' is sometimes variable and dependent upon the content of the group which is defining these terms. Chris Weiss: # What is initiation? big question, and an over-reaching one. we might approach it by telling you how the term 'initiation' is used, what initiation has been for us, or attempt some absolute answer. I'll split the three. initiation is an event or occurence that forms the basis of transition between two aspects of social or personal life. it often but does not always contain a 'death and rebirth' character in its elements. it sometimes makes possible access to social or personal information or activities which were heretofore forbidden. # Is initiation necessary for magick? as much as initiation is necessary for conscious living, so it is also necessary for the practice of magick, yes. if you refer to formal and social rituals (often called 'initiations'), then these are not necessary for all people (some may need it). # Are they related? as above, the latter is dependent upon the former. as regards social rites, they need not be, but can be. # [is] any act of magick ...an initiation? indeed it can be, a consciously directed or manifested event or occurence (magick) can be an initiation whether in social or solitary work. I'm not sure that it is *necessarily* so, unless we start getting into the details of what magick is and how it comes about. # Is the vice versa true? I don't think so. initiations are like chemical reactions. they are not always undertaken with the intent of the chemical components. I do think it CAN be true -- initiations can be magical acts -- but it is not so necessarily, perhaps not ordinarily. # Crowley called [initiation] the Way In. In where? cite the Crowley reference and I'll be happy to attempt interpretation. re: LBRP and ritual design: Marianne Sarkis : # ...what is the difference between doing a ritual for the purpose it was # originally designed, and doing a ritual as part of one's discipline? some rites *are* designed to be part of one's discipline. where they are not, sometimes they are designed to be intermittent or irregular, unusual or unique. 'by original design' is usually very difficult to determine within the Hermetic community on account of the mythos-history fusion. # is there a value put on rituals which makes them less or more valuable # based on why they are done? there is this value resident within the magical community generally, yes. this is where we get discernments like that between 'high' and 'low' magick, often whether someone wishes to change internal (high) or external (low) targets and their configuration/content. I don't think that this value *makes* them less or more valuable, but this isn't likely what you are asking. if you are asking if there are certain elements of rite design which ipso facto work 'better' when performed for certain purposes, I think this is a very important question and one which is usually overlooked or presumed to be the case (usually along the lines of the preferred ritual usage ;>). personally I don't think that human experience is homogenous enough to warrant this blanket assessment. it seems to me that there is a great deal of value in experiment and exploration, and that what was at one time designed with one intent in mind may at times become quite valuable when applied toward completely other purposes by the same or other people. Tim Maroney : # Is it the primary goal to produce change directly through the conference # and publications, or through creation of a longer-term organization? I'm responding to this as if you were talking to me directly. my primary goal is to engage and carry out my true will. presently I have no idea whether this will occur through T93-L and pubs, through creation of something more (I've experimented a long time in group-creation and still continue this, online and off), or even if I can do much more than stay attentive to my proper orbit. # Is it minds or policy one is most hoping to change, or one after the # other? in my political work (which has some degree of commonality with my esoteric disciplines/work/exchanges), I intend to have both changed, in whatever order is sufficient and at whatever pace is possible and likely not merely to quickly return to the status quo. # How do we imagine change occurring in the Thelemic community, which # currently consists of an odd mix of the avant-garde and the hopelessly # reactionary when it comes to gender issues? Will the presentation of # issues change minds by itself, or will protests by required? What is the # most effective way to present issues? What is the most effective way to # protest? given that the thelemic community isn't governed and has no relationship of which I am aware which approximates employer, utility or ecological protests, I think the best presentation is in open forums like this, occasionally, with direct commentary. hopefully the presentation will challenge existing dogmas and lead to further inquiry. I've found that the most effective (leading to the quickest understanding and the least followup-work) is to present issues in a clear, calm manner, formatted in a way easily read, direct at the issues, using language which can be absorbed or referenced, and citing supportive authorities fully. the most effective way I've found to protest is to intentionally oppose and argue cogently with those who are presumed (by some rationale) to be an 'authority' in the social milieu despite how this may appear to outsiders (e.g. 'nigris' and my role with COTO, which I protest). # What portion of effort should be dedicated to programs that help # individual women, and what portion to those that directly seek to change # the system that limits women's opportunities? I split my time up between these, mostly focussing on assisting women in my life directly and changing the system by being outspoken and acting in my personal life in conformity to these ideals or admitting and rectifying instances where this has not been the case and it was pointed out to me. # Who are the beneficiaries of misogyny and discrimination? How can they be # encouraged to reevaluate their position? 'misogyny' is a vague term which makes it difficult to isolate beneficiaries. I do think that we all benefit from an expression of our deep feelings. there are many ways in which these expressions can manifest. inasmuch as misogyny is one of them we all benefit from doing it, though there are more respectful alternatives available. in the case of discrimination, again, this goes on all the time with some benefit to the person doing the discriminating. when it comes to human beings and prejudgements, then this can prove troublesome and damaging. otherwise we tend to think little of it beyond the limitations which the individual sets themselves. how can we all be encouraged to re-evaluate our approach to our expressions and assessments? I've found I tend to re-evaluate when others set an example for me which is at variance with the norm that conforms to the alternatives. that is, by putting alternatives into active practice, we can set an example that may inspire others to change, catalyzing social revolution ("think globally, act locally"). due to rampant ignorance and lack of real connection, however, this may not be enough. it is at these times when organized social revolutions may occur in order to change attitudes and behaviors which are supported by hir local governmental and religious authorities -- which tend to support the status quo. I feel that it is all in some ways a process of *communication*, and that some messages or discoveries require certain social events or organizations or statements or circumstances in order to get across to a wide audience. we tend to think of a batch of stationary listeners, and yet the communication I'm pointing toward is really more like the 'networking' which is done in countless forums like this one. E6/6/6 nigris (333) tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com -- see http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi/nagasiva.html and call: 408/2-666-SLUG!!! ---- (emailed replies may be posted) ---- CC public replies to email ---- * * * Asphalta Cementia Metallica Polymera Coyote La Cucaracha Humana * * *
The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist: tyaginator@arcane-archive.org. |
Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site. |
The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories, each dealing with a different branch of religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge. Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit: |
|
interdisciplinary:
geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc. |
SEARCH THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):
OTHER ESOTERIC AND OCCULT SITES OF INTEREST
Southern
Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo,
including slave narratives & interviews
|