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Babalon and Love in Thelema

To: alt.magick,alt.magick.moderated,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.magick.tantra,talk.religion.misc,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick.order
From: (xiwangmu)
Subject: Babalon and Love in Thelema
Date:  5 Dec 96 21:48:30 GMT

49961121 AA1  


Lainie Petersen:
#> The Thelemites have BABALON, the Scarlet Lady, the Whore, etc., 
#> who refuses nobody. 

this is the (typically) male-oriented, desire-fantasy of the identity 
of Babalon, and says nothing about Scarlet Women, whores or Her entirety.

Mae Tang :
#...if BABALON feels constrained to accept every one who asks her (male 
#or female) for sex, without a sense that she can choose her own lovers 
#/ path, then isn't she as much a slave in matters sexual as Mary 


#Your Liber Oz / Liber AL injunction about loving whomever, whenever and 
#however, (but always unto Nuit if that's Liber Al) would seem to me to 
#apply to women, men and BABALON, as a kind of archetypal mediary between 
#Nuit and humans. 

ideally.  as Thelema is typically engaged by men, and men are more often 
seen as pursuer, the woman as pursued (at least within my local society
and the general media), the 'take' is insensitively and illogically
ascribed only to oneself (presuming the popular heterosexuality).  the
dedicated Thelemite more often gets into Babalon by doffing whorish 
duds, and this is not the usual fare for the conservative het-Thelemite.

#...BABALON is about being able to say "no" or "yes"; 

ability, skill, expertise, yes.  the benefits of a PROFESSION.

#to choose, and to take responsibility for myself, and my own sexuality. 

but this is not specific to Babalon, who is good at pushing Herself past 
Her own resistance to sexuality as per Her will for Her own motives (as
compared to the motives of the one who desires *Her*).  the whore usually
engages the profession for the financial remuneration received.  this is
also the case in American society, where the stereotype goes that women
put out in order to be supported (less and less the case as economic
currents shift, so the formula tends less often to work for anyone).

#I have yet to meet any Thelemites in general / Brethern in the Order I'm in,
#who've made the mistake of assuming that, based on your view of BABALON,
#we Thelemic / OTO women are naturally incapable of saying "no". ;)

the male-oriented, often male-perpetuated archetype of the 'sexual woman'
includes this stereotype (either frigid or nympho as the poles).

#...being a Scarlet Woman was about more than just sex, ....

compare to Therapist, Initiatrix, Yogini, and Priestess-Magician.
at Her depths, She is an adept of the current of Love and all this
entails and includes.  this is seldom restricted to sex, though it
may or may not include it.  in this sense 'Samadhi' as you use it
and 'Love' are not at all different.

#...pan-sexuality in which Samadhi / union with in many, many areas of 
#life is possible. 

not just possible, but mastered.  the adept of Babalon challenges the
barriers to connection and the resolution of differentiation through
the force of hir will and in consonance with hir own limitations.  this
may as often require ABSTINENCE as it may require fucking.  it is a 
movement into a state of relaxed readiness which is pervasive and
extends much beyond the physical realm (cf 'the quiet strength' of the
tiger or 'the lithe adaptability' of the martial arts master).

note: Mary Magdelene is along the same lines within Christian mythos.


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