a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


From: Mae Tang 
Subject: Re: Gnostic and/or Black Mass
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 1996 15:40:07 +0000 (GMT)


On Tue, 26 Nov 1996, Rodney Orpheus wrote:

> >From:        solis, solis@HEVANET.COM
> >Personally, (in otherwords, IMO) turning ones back on the Priestess to
> >state that "There is no part of me that is not of the gods" is doing
> >both, Priestess and participant a great disservice.  If the Priestess
> >and communicant are doing their jobs correctly, turning ones back ruins
> >the experience of the communicant looking into the eyes of the goddess;
> >and from the Priestesse's point of view, she'll not experience looking
> >at the Hadit in the communicant.

I've been to and in Masses where the congregation communicated and
declared that to the Priestess, and to one mass where it was done to the
rest of the congregation. From my perspective doing Priestess (IMO! IMO!
;)), I've always really liked the former. I think part of that is a sense
of intimacy between the communicant and the Priestess. For me, it has
something to do with a sense of personal epiphany, which seems heightened
by that simultaneous intimacy and revelation. Or, at the best of time, I
feel a sense of vunerability and wonder ignited in that trust. 

I personally wouldn't take offense if I was doing Priestess, and the
communicant declared Old Faithful to the congregation, but I feel that
it's always good to have both options at hand. Since no two people will
feel the same when communicating (I guess), I think it's nice that there
shoud be variations availble so people get to choose what works best for

Speaking as a communicant, declaring and consuming the host / wine before
the Priestess is something that I find special, in the same way as I've
outlined above. Some of (IMO) the best Priestess I have seen have had
wonderful things to offer in that face-to-face. I've seen them radiate a
deep joy and peace; a kind of wonderful love and happiness that just beams
out, or something of a sense of humour; like a private joke shared in a
playful universe. I know I wax subjective and poetical, but it's something
that has deeply moved me since the first mass I attended.

Communicating and declaring to the congregation was OK too, and did have
it's own distinction, and I can see it working well for some people and
some Priestesses, but speaking for myself, I know what I generally

> He rises, takes the Lance, and turns to the PEOPLE.
> The PRIEST: There is no part of me that is not of the Gods.
> The PEOPLE communicate as did the PRIEST, uttering the same words in an 
> attitude of Resurrection

Ah-ha! But then if we're going to do the by-the-letter argument, then have
you noticed the discrepancies in the Mass, where the Priest would need
four hands to manage host / wine and lance? What about the confusion over
the Priestess's 3.5 circumambulations (raising Kundalini, etc) as  
described by AC (even _3:10_ has 2 different diagrams of _that)? That bit
where the Priest is supposed to have taken the lance back from the
Priestess and she's still holding it lines later? The problem of who
covers the Cup? How the Priestess can be holding the Cup in her left hand,
Paten in right, and still have the Priest mark the crosses on those in the
correct order?

I've seen Priests make crosses with the lance, and crosses with their
hands where the text ain't clear; I've seen variations on how people hold
things, when they hold things, where they stand, how they read / perform
various texts, etc. I've heard of "single white robe" being interpreted as
the Priest goes naked, and so on.

Or, I personally come down on the side of variations and individual
interpretations. I think there's no harm in choosing an "official" version
of the Mass, for referance. What would get my goat (in more ways than
one! ;)) is if that became the _only_ version we could do. Like, a
nightmare vision of lances and cups, sizes of Priestesses ;), and
furniture being standardised, etc. For me, the letter of it is important,
and is valuable, but I feel that the spirit of the thing is perhaps what's
most vital. 

> Seems fairly clear to me that the communicant should therefore have his 
> back to the Priestess during this section. Makes sense to me too, since I 
> see no point in the communicants telling the Priestess how they feel, 
> it's the rest of the world that needs to be told...

If if works for you, fine. I worry about that "should" somewhat, but
hey--- that's your opinion! ;) My feeling is that since the rest of the
world is also going to communicate / has communicated, that they'd
probably ah... know already and personally, actually. ;) But that's just

93 93/93
Mary Magdalene / 974

----- End of forwarded message from Mae Tang -----

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist:

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.


There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase


Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races