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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.satanism,alt.religion.satanism,alt.politics.satanism
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of the CoE)
Subject: Satanism's Authority: ME (was 1000 years of Satanism?)
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 09:45:02 GMT

50010812 VI! om Hail Satan! Hail Yes!

"Jeff Gerber" :
> There is a picture of Matt's wife, Diane "Page" who was the first to ever
> perform "Satan and the Lady."  This predates LaVey by years....  

Performance Satanism. art, not religion. outgrowth of 'Literary Satanism'.

>Now, while most Jews were regular Jews with their Torah, Talmud and Zohar,
>there were quite a few other types that blended in very well with what
>anyone would call demonoloters, satanists.  

condemnatory satanism. bludgeon, not religion. outgrowth of Roman Catholicism.

> LaVey himself paid homage to the movie "The Wicker Man" which is all 
> about this in the UK....

so what? lots of Neopagans did too. it made them look spooky.

> That tradition predates him and he had no problem admitting this.  

lots of traditions predate him (and us). that don't make them Satanism.

> In the Eastern European and Central Asian or "Russian" lands such 
> things were much more common, especially since the native Slavic 
> deity was the Black God (Chernobog).

black god worship is not Satanism. it is just Black-god-ism.

>Michelet brings up an excellent point about persecution....

Michelet is an artist, not an historian. Literary Satanism.

> ...There is also the Aradia text which has Satan and/or Lucifer
> as a being that gave aid and comfort to persecuted Witches, 
> Warlocks, Jews and Gypsies.

Literary Satanism, possibly written by Leland as a hoax.

> This should be obvious.  

it's always "obvious" to those who are attempting to convert us.

> Satan was the ubiquitous name of the "One Thing That Was The Enemy" 
> of government/church....

that's your thesis? you may wish to dig more deeply. 'Satan' is the
name of the personification of evil to Christians. this is very
obvious within the Christian scripture and is the predominant reason
why the text of Dante and Milton have been accepted OVER the flimsy
text in "The Bible" as regards what 'Satan' is like.

afterwards the Adversary was compressed into the vision of this
personification (kind of like how those who are paranoid treat 
the world around them).

> ...King Solomon, even in well known Moslem folklore, had power over
> the djinn (demons) and locked them up in jars when he was not using them.

folklore. again, this is literary, and not even Satanism. it was a
brass vessel cast into a sea.

> This should be obvious....

there's a name for this attempt to persuade through comparison with
folly. "if you don't agree, then you are an idiot." see the tool being
used to persuade? but it doesn't work on those who've seen it used
on others or had it used on us. emotional or intellectual pressure
tactics are simply not convincing to those who have integrity.

> ...The top soap opera, a show that not one Witch or
> Warlock or Pagan had a problem with, was Dark Shadows. Angelique 
> was the Witch in the show and it was the Devil she definitely 
> paid homage to....

get your arguments straight. you're talking about media fabrications
again. this isn't religion, it is Literary Satanism at best. you
might as well start claiming that "La Bas" was a Satanic "classic". ha!

> ...Witchcraft and Satanism always went together until very recently 
> in time.  

condemnatory satanism. this is not supported in anthropology texts.

> ...Anton LaVey who, quite frankly, knew nothing about this.  He 
> didn't even know about Bakunin.

Bakunin -- anarchist; not a Satanist either. why try to rewrite the
past to suit your assertions? confusion between "de facto" Satanism
(which LaVey rightly named) and actual Satanism, which has yet to
be determined except by me. :>

> Claiming he had an Infernal Mandate, he just went about inventing his
> version of Satanism out of whole cloth, using Nietzsche, Rand and London
> (Redbeard) only because he liked it.  

sounds Satanic to me. but is what he *promoted* Satanic? I'm not so
sure about that. he may have had a misperception or two about what
constitutes Satanism, after all. what makes him so important?

> Yes these people have nothing to do with Satanism.  

so you say. why should we believe you? more people telling us more
bullshit. I'm honest when I say that the most authoritative source
on Satanism is ME. consider saying the same of yourself and see
where that gets you.

> What he personally liked is neither here nor there.  It means nothing 
> to anyone except the small cult of people that have formed around his 
> personality today.  

in one sense you are completely wrong. what he personally liked is
ALL there is to (his) Satanism. the small cult is just a Herd, and
Herds like to follow in the wake of Satanists because Satanists
are leaders, setting the tempo. you will be able to tell the
Satanists from the non-Satanists because the Herd will march to 
the tune of the Herd-leader. this is the essential problem with
org-Satanism as we know it. it hasn't developed to the point where
it can support the ideas and behaviours of the INDIVIDUAL, absent
the doctrinal platitudes, 12-Point Penis-Growing Campaigns (watch
out or the New Satanists will say you have a Tiny Weenie!), or
a New Herd for you to join and pay dues to.

> It is, in truth, a cult of personality where people "wonder" 
> about his daughters and other completely irrelevant things.
> There were Satanists out there and there are still Satanists out 
> there, but expecting the Church of Satan to find them is silly.   

agreed. but what are you doing? talking about the cult.

> Satanists usually tend to be a very secretive lot.  And I am 
> definitely defining Satanism as anything that pays homage, 
> foremost, to the Darkness or Chaos and the Principles (yes, 
> there are always five of them - in Kaballa there are 4 that
> co-exist with the Light and one other that merges with the 
> 4 after the birth of the Cosmos) of Darkness that are hidden 
> from the sight/knowledge of most people.  That is the 
> definition of Satanism.  A Satanist is a person that knows 
> of these and pays them homage - both.  A person might know of 
> them and battle the entire concept - that would not be a 
> Satanist;  that would be more like a Christian, Moslem, or 
> regular Jew.

whew! here come the DEFINITIONS! can you get past the STENCH
of Satanism here? I'm beginning to see some sociological
categories of Satanism. let's see if any of these appeal to
you (note that I'm not trying to convince you of the capital
'T' Truth of them like this cretin is doing, just observing
and giving you some more ideas to build your OWN Satanism):

	* Reactionary Satanist -- the one that grew up on Christianity
				  being told that 'Satan is making you
				  do that!' and thereafter determined
				  that since Satan was anti-Christian
				  and Satan was anti-authority, then
			          well, dammit, Satan must be k000l!

	* Condemnatory Satanist -- if the Christians (or Muslims or
				   whatever religious authority)
				   condemned it then it must be good!
				   ball up the whole pre-Christian
				   sociology and fabricate a fabulous
				   fictional network for it; poof!
				   it's what was 'never seen in
				   history'! more like lame fantasies.

	* Literary Satanist -- those who take the writings which are
			       even *potentially* pro-Satan and cast
			       them as the 'work of Satanists' from
			       'a time when they couldn't actually
			       identify with the "Root Tradition"'
			       (as if it actually ever existed; try
			       following out some of their detailed
			       references if they offer any at all
			       and you'll see how hollow these are) 

	* Advocatory Satanist -- like LaVey or this Jeff Gerber
				 Tani-monkey, trying to tell you,
				 the BEST SOURCE OF AUTHORITY ON
				 SATANISM YOU WILL EVER HAVE, 
				 what you "should" believe; they
				 just cannot get out of the habit
				 of trying to make more monkeys
				 like themselves, producing clones
				 of themselves following their
				 mysterious masters in letter and
				 in spirit; watch out for them;
			         they prey on newbies and attempt
				 to take over your mind by pretending
				 to knowledge and authority that they
				 never had.

	* Real Satanist -- I'm it! I'm the only authority I'll ever
			   need where Satanism is concerned; egotism
			   is great! I don't need to convince you
			   of some false history; in fact I get a
			   charge of popping holes in the balloons
			   of Advocatory Satanists; think about it,
			   you're in the same position that I am!

> These ideas and the obvious gathering of people that formed around these
> ideas are far older than 1000 years....   

so "obvious". did any of these wonderful people call themselves
Satanists or associate something positive with the term 'Satan'?
that is what qualifies for historical and social Satanism in my
book, and that's the only book that counts!

> That Anton LaVey decided to pull a stunt, self-admittedly like a carnival
> act, during a time when *everyone* was acting out, black power, gay power,
> you name it, is a trivial matter.  It means nothing except to those that
> belong to his fan club.

it means that we should beware of people pulling carnival stunts.
one of them is in defining Satanism for us. ;> now you and Tani
want fan clubs too? where will it all end?

"People's Commissar" :
>> You are not looking at this inside of very real social and historical
>> context.  Therefore, your entire premise is moot.

you know, Tani, I typically don't respond to your text because I don't
see it, and I don't tend to agree with your logic, but I really must
compliment you on your domain name here ("myself.com"). whether or not
that is a fake name (it's not registered to you per se but to some ISP 
in NJ), it is still symbolic of the spirit of Satanism and I enjoy it. ;>

I think it would be more Satanic if you had your name listed at the
Network Solutions WHOIS lookup. you've inspired me, thanks.

blessed beast!

boboroshi@satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director,
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)
Satanism Archive: http://www.satanservice.org/
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