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To: alt.magick.ethics,alt.religion.wicca,alt.magick.tyagi
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (lorax)
Subject: Satanic Ethics??? (was Re: Off the wall question ( was: Re: Fluff-bunny Wiccans UNITE! (was other silly things))
Date: 5 Jun 1997 15:59:09 -0700

49970605 AA1  Hail Satan!


marjorie@netcom.com (Marjorie Rosen):
>I've got a question for the Satanists in the group. 

posted to a few, I respond and add alt.satanism.


>As a Wiccan, I have no problems with following the Ethic. I don't 
>consider it all that limiting, but rather as a call to mindfulness. 

I presume you mean 'the Rede' ("an it harm none do what thou wilt" or
some variation).  it has a variety of meaning to Wiccans and to some
of us it is just a good guideline, nothing more.


>...what type of ethical system do Satanists or Setians, or whatever, 
>use in their lives? 

a variety, as any good religion which doesn't regard ethics (or ideology
generally) as a definitive measure of one's spirituality.  CoSatanists (of
the Church of Satan) like to talk about LaVeyan ideas of deserved revenge,
protection of children and animals, and 'survival of the fittest'.  Setians 
are often fond of those of Aquino or other members of that organization or 
one's they dreamed up on their own, often on some grand and ancient Egyptian
self-development program.  nonorg Satanists sometimes construct their
elaborate systems, sometimes retain a type of amorality which does not
accept 'systems' of ethics on the basis of their heartlessness and lack
of connection to the situation ('situational ethics').


>If you simply go by "Do as you will", does this mean that you consider 
>humanity a hunting ground? 

I go by 'do what thou wilt' but try to watch out that I 'harm none'.


>Do you have *any* ethics at all regarding the use of magick? 

no system, though I tend to avoid hurting folks until and unless it begins
to impact me directly, in which case I tend to take action one way or
another, depending on the frustration/interference factor.


>Here's a senario: You meet a *very* attractive woman you'd like to date. 
>You ask, but she declines as she is in a relationship. 

that's where I stop.  I abandon her and wait or become involved with her and
her partner(s).  I don't take an adversarial stance with people if I can 
help it.  it takes too much time and energy for me to get involved in those
kinds of dramatics.  they happen enough without my trying to inspire them.  

incidentally, this situation occurred to me not too long ago.  I informed
the woman in question that I was very attracted to her and wanted her to
know this.  that's as far as it got.


>You work magick to compel her to transfer her affections to you.  This 
>works (for whatever length of time you can control her). How does this 
>differ from rape? Do you care?

an interesting hypothetical.  first I'm not sure that the responsibility
for the change-over can be made that easily.  it would be fun to think
'I made this woman attracted to me', but I don't find that magical
epistemology works that way.  it would be one thing if I went all out,
buying her flowers and candies and calling and waiting on her hand and
foot and dumping a potion into her drink and then watched as she changed
over time toward my affections.  it would be quite another to *only* do
the latter, happening to dump that love-potion and with no other (material) 
activities prior to the change.  I notice that magick takes a
full-fledged endeavor or it doesn't often work very well.  given this,
it is difficult to assess the Penultimate Cause.


>Talk about differing opinions. I've always thought of Satanism as a 
>fairly fluffy bunny religion since 99.9% of the ones I've met have been 
>more into the idea of "I can do *anything* I want!" than they are in any 
>concrete philosophy or religious thought. 

I think in some age groups it manifests as a delimitation from moralism.
there is a hefty history to Satanic artwork and philosophy.  it is merely
unacknowledged by the conventionally Christian, not unknown.  


>And then there are those who are obviously in it as a counter to 
>Christianity, 

at the edges this makes sense, living in a culture dying of Christianity.


>and their favorite pastime is to try to shock the mundanes. 

our first glimpses of power in our ability to affect others through
appearance.  it is 'glamor' and learned by girls early on (see the
film 'Witches' for a glimpse at its imagined effects).  boys don't
typically get to play with this, and must engage asocial or awkward
activities instead.  entering into the world of the occult is one
method by which this can occur, especially if it bursts out of the
ritual circle and into everyday life (jewelry and clothing are the
first part of that 'tantric' lifestyle).


>Do you actually *use* magick regularly? 

to me magick is not an energy which I may use, though I think there
is importance in describing magick in this way.  for me it is a
*process* whereby my will is applied to an end which I have in mind,
and there is value in knowing some portion of my limitations or core
values such that I don't over-expend toward a lesser goal or disperse
my energies entirely without planning.  in this latter sense I apply
magick in as many as my activities as I can, though with the cyclic
nature of life sometimes I sleepwalk and forget.


>Is this part of your religious practice at all?

the most difficult.  my religious practice is what I take to the world.
it includes political activities toward the awareness of the shithole
we are making of this being many of us call 'Our Mom', 'Gaia', or
our biosphere or Satan or wild nature or whatever.  communication in
words and concepts isn't good enough because there is too much of it.  
instead actions (local, thinking globally) and daDa (which I have only
occasionally explored) are what is required.  for me it is a difficult
application of magick though not abandoned on account of this challenge.

blessed beast!

lorax, anti-drone of the evul fluff-bunny wikkhunz
 tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com