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To: talk.euthanasia,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.satanism,alt.magick,alt.magick.pagan,alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc,alt.activism,talk.environment,talk.philosophy.humanism,talk.politics.misc
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer)
Subject: Re: Pacts With Satan
Date: 26 Jun 1997 12:48:49 -0700

49970626 aa2 Hail Satan!

a pact with Satan is a magical act (black magick, of the earth)


marilynvin@aol.com (MarilynVin):
# ...any intelligent Satanist does not believe in the Devil, just like 
# they don't believe in God.  

if 'the Devil' means 'the adversary to the God of my cosmology' then I agree.

if 'the Devil' means my Shadow or the Shadow of my culture, then I think such
disbelief is dangerous.  personally I don't accept Christian cosmologies
which posit no allowance for competition (such as that their god is the God
and that he created everything and everybody should know this, etc.), and
that a person might believe their gods to be noncorporeal and separate 
entities rather than extant correlates of the natural world strikes me as 
misguided.  

I have understood who Satan is.  I have seen that SHe is not what 
Christians and others say SHe is and that the cosmological fabrication
is an hallucination which continues to plague modern society in the form
of 'witch-hunts', plaguing my wild kin in the form of continued human
over-breeding and despoilage.


# You can't sell your soul to the Devil, there isn't one.  

there isn't 'the Devil'?  in the above I made clear that I think there is 
a Shadow and that this can be identified as the Devil (see Jung for more 
on the Shadow -- it's in one of the books you suggested I read).  the 
particulars of what you think 'selling the soul' means is unclear to me.  

a trade of one's soul (I take 'soul' to mean one's entirety) to be 
delivered at a future time (no specification, due upon demand) for the 
satiation of every desire is quite possible and even laudible.  if I 
am convinced that Satan is going to receive this soul upon death anyway, 
that I will become part of the Wild once more, then this becomes an 
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT, a PACT, since Satan benefits from my service and I 
benefit from having my desires satiated.  this is in reality not too
much different from many other types of mystical commitments (except
it is simultaneously altruistic and selfish rather than stupidly
ego-effacing and dissolutive of my integrity).


#Satan is a symbol used to represent the socially unacceptable dark side, 
#left hand path, etc. 

to me, Satan is wild nature, inclusive of these things you mention as well
as my Shadow and that which I and human beings tend to want to control 
and cannot.  in this way I think of my Satanism as a fanatical type of 
Neopaganism, dedicated to the full service of that which most Neopagans 
often claim to 'worship' in their symbolic rites, something which I would
take into my daily life to its maximum.

the worship of symbolic 'nature gods' is not enough for me.  I must take 
it to a greater distance and attempt to serve the being whom I worship 
(Mother Nature) in the capacity I have available, making some EFFORT, 
disciplining myself toward assisting She whom I LOVE rather than saying 
that I love Her while continuing to do things which contribute toward
Her *destruction*.


#You will just be wasting your time if you try to do that.  

making a pact with Satan (wild nature) toward Hir service strikes me 
as the greatest and most noble kind of act that a nature-worshiper can 
engage.  it is not a 'waste of time' by any stretch of the imagination.  

you would have me save my soul for something else?  there is a distinct 
favor for saving it for human beings ('soul mates') and for dedicating 
it to some afterlife ('heaven', 'the Summerlands', etc.).  I don't 
believe in any kind of afterlife.  I'm one of Satan's minions, Hir 
power protects me as I worship that power (Sakti).  why need I worry 
about wasting my time given such a path??


#Read a book instead, educate yourself.

insulting another's intelligence evinces the lack of persuasiveness you
have in your own assertion.  instead of pretending you have responded to
my post, why don't you elaborate what you think a soul is, how what I 
have actually *said*, rather than what you have projected, is a waste of
time or impossible, and why presuming Satan to be 'a symbol' makes one a
Satanist moreso than someone who understands Satan to be a being that is
anthropomorphized (I think the Levi'an Baphomet comes close to a symbolic
representation though it is slightly off from my standards).

blessed beast!
________________________________________________________________________
nocTifer: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com  ---  http://www.abyss.com/tokus
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