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To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Love, Satan, Allah and Sufism (was Understanding buttons) 49970925 aa2 Hail Satan! assalam alaykum, my kin. "Jacquie Weller": # I posted these questions to tariqas.... I wanted to discuss this here... # ...I encourage your response to Lobsters answer to my post. responses to both below. your words inspire me sister, as do those of the tricky Lobster. apparently also from "Jacquie Weller" : #> I cannot understand those who call themselves satanists. is it not confusing? to understand a thing we must pay close attention to it and see it in its context. partial glimpses, reflections and rumors usually provide incomplete and skewed vision. #> I do not relate to this nor know what it means to do so. I do both. #> I believe God is love and all that is the "reality of God" is in #> relationship and kinship with this love. some sufis instruct that Iblis is Allah's foremost Beloved. there is an important mystery here. #> I do not say the dark side does not exist but it is not what i wish to #> dwell on and focus. then it may not be your role and path. follow your guide and all will be well. E Jason : #> Does not the world constantly remind us of these 'satanic elements'? yes, but we are often lacking in observation and so screen these out. #> How are we to avoid them? In a sense we have to accept the nature of #> the world. We can not avoid the world. we may not be able to avoid the world, but we can surely cast the world in imaginative forms, focus on very small pieces of the world, filter and slice and dice our perceptions of the world until it does not contain objectionable elements or difficult objects of observation. #> We have to accept its existence. We also have to know that it has #> a dark and unpleasant side. denial is very easy to begin, difficult to maintain endlessly. the religious who seek to dwell on the side of the light, painless, and compassionate are not the Warriors of Allah. the shade of a tree in the desert is a pleasant boon. #> What is important is how this coresponds to our own ego. the central mystery. #> If we think the spiritual path is about preference ('I like nice people #> saying nice things about Love - and oh - I like Angels'), we are living #> in a delusion. it is an extension of the spiritual manger. there is sometimes a need for protection against the storms, ordeals, trials, of the spiritual path. if we were told we would later have to walk *into* that desert alone we might balk and give up for the difficulty we perceive and project now. #> That is only partial understanding - it is unbalanced. Yes the sufi will #> focus on Love but they will learn to Love what most people can not dwell #> on or focus on. Through this they will transform both the internal and #> external manifestion of Thought Allah willing. apparently this was also from Jacquie: #> ...there is a lot of forces...hate/love...but love is stronger #> and purer than hate. the 'love' which is attachment feeds hatred, through the back door. the 'love' which is exploitation deserves hatred from its lack of respect. the 'love' which is convenience is less reputable than a hatred of futility. the 'love' which is dependence can induce hatred through conditionality. the love which arises from the dervish is stronger and purer than hatred, since it includes hatred and all other emotional responses through acceptance. most of us are not dervishes. #> hate is overcome by love as is darkness by light. hatred is indeed overcome by the love from the dervish. however, this is not as the rival army is overcome by the superior force. moreso it is the result of a dissolution, a diminuation through gentle and supportive form, as water wearing away the sides of a valley, as the pupae provides a place of transformation for the caterpillar. darkness and light never overcome one another. the light of Allah cannot be encompassed by the darkness, the darkness of Allah cannot be quenched by the light. yang and yin, tumbling and flying through the baptism of our tears, are forever playmates. #> ...there can be intellectual debate and etc etc. But I do not find #> any truth in lies or benefit in harm...the two things cannot be in #> harmony imo. all of truth is but a lie. all lies conceal important truths. that Truth transcends and includes both truths and lies is a deep mystery, so deep it cannot be explained, only pointed out occasionally. harm and benefit are more of the yin/yang maya. Wiccans know this who have delved into the mystery of our Rede: "an it harm none, do what ye will." harm may be seen in many ways. life feeds on the demise of life. death is the cessation of the living being. sometimes what seems to be 'harm' is a necessity to benefit, and sometimes what seems to be 'benefit' is central to the real harm. the surgeon harms the skin to remove the cyst. the conman provides his confidence in the mark so as to later deceive and betray. #> Hail Satan! (people feel fear . . .) Hail Satan! need we fear? if 'hailing' is healing and 'satan' is that which will not be controlled, despite our attempts to discipline Hir, is this something to avoid? pull the thorn from the paw of the lion. bend down to attend to the leper. the monster we presume our danger is often our salvation. the hunchback who keeps us jailed in fear is our most potent ally for liberation. when the faithful say 'Allah help us!' I shall say, 'Allah favor the hunchback!'. #> God is Love (people feel good . . .) and yet what does this really mean? people mistake Allah for less than SHe is, mistake Love doubly so. we settle for attachment and dependence and leave Love to the lofty and saintly. we deceive ourselves into thinking that supporting the evils around us will be only a temporary affair, and that someday, someday, we will be strong enough to deny them. there is no someday, and if the denial doesn't start now, it will never start. laws arise when customs have been abandoned. customs arise when humaneness has been abandoned. humaneness arises when the Way has been lost. the sage treats people as straw dogs. (courtesy of Lao) #> ...how much of our everyday life is spent in this trivial way? We #> respond to the meaningless and empty expressions all around us #> *without looking at the underlying reality*. content in our automobiles, we overlook the fact that the roads are paved in blood. how is this not a support of blood sacrifice? #> When Sufis tell Moslems to 'Dye their prayer rug with wine', do #> you think this is a satanic command or a multilayered and deep #> excercise. Until such time as people can go beyond their own #> capacity to be effected by the trivial words and experience - #> the Real intent and meaning - to become aware of what pushes #> their button, the will live like robots and never experience #> the Truth. settled in comfort, discipline is lost. forever fearful that we might lose what we have, we build constraining vaults to secure our wealth, becoming the jailers of our souls. ignoring the ugly, the evil and the dangerous, we pretend that we cannot change, die. #> Hail Satan! #> All is He. #> He is Love. brave heart, Lobster, thou who utter the blasphemy where I could not. # Lobster you assume that I fear Satan... that you may ignore Hir. # I am deluded...etc. that you may reject Hir and may therefore be ignorant of Hir. # Satan or the concept of Satan in my understanding is not love... # Immersed in the love reality of God is not delusional...it is # what offers bread to the hungry, it is the submission to God's # will and to die out to the false self, the shadow, Satan (is everything not a concept? a reality of some proportion?) is not love, at least not the love we tend to associate with Allah. instead Satan is That which we cannot control, which we deny, hate, and are embarassed to admit about ourselves, our inferiority, our shadow in the harsh light of self-judgement. Satan arises from hatred, and will perpetuate this until we begin truly to love, at which time Satan transforms into Allah's most trusted servant. the love of Allah offers bread to the hungry. to the fed, Allah's love may inspire greater daring. it is not delusional, it is supportive. this love is not itself submission but the response to submission (perhaps only an intensification or attention to us). the shadow is not the false self, it is that of the self which we cannot stand, which we deny *is* part of the self, which we have shoved into the basement of ourselves, forgotten and castigated, like a crazy malformed uncle whom the world demonizes and who we would be mortified to show to the world. we would prefer to show our best face to the world, rather than to have it known how horrid and ugly we feel in our deepest solitude. # Love is more than (feeling good) You have made it sound like a surgar # coating. The reality of God, is not the warm fuzzy ball, or angelic # experiences...It is not the emotional roller coaster of the mind, # heart that is eminated from the circumstances or imaginations. It # permanated from the heart of God and brings liberty and freedom from # the shackles of self and opens up the REAL.... Allah's love does all this for us without our having to do anything difficult? why engage discipline, why do difficult things, why follow out the directions of the Guide if Allah will unlock all of our shackles for us once we have proven our dedication? what is the science of the Inner World for but a ladderwork by which we may approach Allah ourselves? did Allah not inspire its expression to the sufi mystics so that these valiant individuals would undertake the removal of the thousand veils? or should we just pray "Allah! remove these veils from my eyes, I am faithful!"? # You think I am not fully aware of the satanic elements and perhaps I am. how could any of us be so aware of our backs? # I think what we focus on becomes magnifyed. there is a wonderful book by Sam Keen called _Faces of the Enemy_. there are many world rulers, portions of humanity (Arabs, Chinese, Americans, Germans, etc.) who are portrayed therein as horrendous monsters who are in the throes of vicious anger and would surely kill us had they the chance. yet when we look more closely, when we magnify these bits of propaganda, we see that they say more about the people who made them than they do about those they intended to slander. that magnification is an insight into *our* hearts. sitting in bed, shivering from fear, knowing that in the closet and under the bed there lie humungous powers of adversity who are just sadistically waiting for us to close our eyes and drop our guard (they long to possess and do unspeakable things to us), we completely misunderstand the experience. eventually we grow old enough, brave enough, to look into those darknesses ourselves, hopefully at once coming to know the shadow of ourselves. too often we forget the fear, explain away the presence as 'mere imagination', and disbelieve in immanent (and internal) evil and the Devil forever. # I focus on that which brings peace and is of service for God's # will and purposes as they show up in daily like. peace is over-rated and misunderstood. too often we presume that it consists of a mere lack of conflict, settle for stagnancy where peace would require combat, and become something we never wanted to be. how shall the sufi discern upon what to focus? shall the target always be that which appears to benefit us (will we deny surgery? discipline?), or will we fix our attention upon the True Guide despite whatever may appear to come from our action? is not the Green One's instruction to Mosheh pertinent to this? we are ignorant and to presume otherwise is to fall off the path. relying on Allah for all things, I become Satan. # It boils down to the simplicity of feeding someone is hungry, # comforting someone who is grieving, and praising God for his # goodness which is above all evil. how dear and beautiful is this act of charity. eventually we may find that the someone who is hungry is us, that the grieving occurs in our hearts, and that the praise of Allah is by Allah. when we look inward we may find that the black and white squares of good and evil form a collage of mystery we cannot discern until we enter into the game itself and find Allah playing both sides. the sage says 'is that so?' and 'this too shall pass', even while she appears to benefit and harm in the name of Allah. peace be with you, haramullah tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com ============================================================ Orig-To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: If All is He, Nowhere Lies Evil (was All is He) 49970926 aa2 assalam alaykum, my kin. haramullah: #> some sufis instruct that Iblis is Allah's foremost Beloved. there is #> an important mystery here. E Jason : # Why should this be so? if all is He, then so is Satan. if Allah is the Beloved of Allah, how much more so than the First Angel? I cannot confirm the assertions of these instructions by the sufis (indeed even Sufis) that I have heard, though they struck a cord deep inside me of a cosmos in which love is the law. # How are are we to understand this in terms of our own mental processes? wonderful question!! we can understand it that Satan is our wildness, our natural animal which, if squelched, will only return to assail us in other ways through other routes. instead we may need to form a kind of truce, a pact, with Satan, so as to work to mend the gulf, to heal the damage which SHe has suffered at the hands and minds of our society and ourselves. when we find that Godzilla was a wounded wild animal, in our compassion we can protect ourselves while attempting to address and heal this wound. for our self-kindnesses we shall be benefitted by a resolution of will and personality within ourselves. # First and foremost we Trust in Allah. Without doubt, this is our # Absolute. Now Allah can be found in the Human Heart and who does # not love themself to some degree? The love of self is the selfish # aspect of Iblis, that will not bow to Gods Command to bow before # wo/mankind. However for us to worship ourselves, for the Divine # Angel in us to worship our humanity (even at Gods command) would # be unnaceptable. That is what most of us do. We are Satan. only because we think of ourselves poorly, accept ourselves as inferior, weak, broken, bad, horrible, garbage, do we begin to feel that the only compensation for this self-disrespect and misunderstanding of our beauty is a worship of ourselves in some manner. we may place ourselves upon a pedastel, becoming our idol, and lose connection to ourselves inwardly. we become diffracted and disturbed, the wildness of us rebels and tries to save us by taking over, we become 'possessed by Satan'. without our directing attempt to reconcile the energies of ourselves, a void, an internal waywardness, vulnerability, may be inspired. # However Allah being All Merciful knows this and forgivs us. Slowly # we begin to center on the eternal and transform ourself. We have # to be careful that it is the Divine that grows. indeed, careful observation of our actions, ideas and behaviors with a critical eye to motivation and long-term, deep result is one of the most valuable gifts we can offer our souls. forgiveness -- the ability to accept the condition of life and remain unattached to our past -- can allow our shift to the development of ourselves beyond crippled children serving the delight of corporate advertizers and shysters. what qualities do you find indicative of the development of the divine? if we are to watch carefully for these signs, how long do we wait? are there intervening states of nondivinity through which we must persevere? what is the process of individuation/gnosis/ma'rifat for which we may watch out in the absence of a blessed guide who takes this watch hirself? thank you for your insight, oh one who lobs. peace be with you, haramullah tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com From tariqas-approval@world.std.com Thu Oct 2 19:15:09 1997 Received: from veracruz-gw.customer.itw.net (veracruz-gw.customer.ITW.NET [208.211.5.42]) by bay2.bjt.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA26809 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 19:15:08 -0700 Received: from europe.std.com ([199.172.62.20]) by veracruz-gw.customer.itw.net (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA128 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 22:20:49 -0400 Received: by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA13527; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 22:10:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA13466; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 22:10:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bay2.bjt.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21498; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 21:42:41 -0400 Received: from bay1.bjt.net (tyagi@bay1.bjt.net [207.201.6.1]) by bay2.bjt.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA22148 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:23:44 -0700 Received: (from tyagi@localhost) by bay1.bjt.net (8.7.5/8.7.5) id MAA00841 for tariqas@world.std.com; Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:23:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199710021923.MAA00841@bay1.bjt.net> Subject: Re: If All is He To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:23:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <342D823F.42B@dial.pipex.com> from "E Jason" at Sep 27, 97 03:01:35 pm From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (haramullah) Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 PGP2] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: list Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO 49971002 aa2 assalam alaykum, my kin. E Jason : # What is the greatest obstacle to understanding? the greatest obstacle to understanding is knowledge. we construct castles in the clouds and forget that this is their character. we are asked to come on flying journies into other castles and want to take our castle of knowledge with us. the two castles conflict and we cannot enter fully into the construction of our kin. only through leaving our castle behind can we truly begin a tour of the Kingdom. # Is progress possible for those who are greedy? (a greed for wisdom, # progress or gnosis is still greed) where there is a need for building and accumulating, greed can be helpful. where there is a need for trimming and releasing, greed becomes an obstacle. # What was/is your greatest lesson? love is and always has been my greatest lesson, though during my life love has taken many forms, been recognized with varying understandings, and approached from new perspectives. such a lesson can never be mastered and returns a thousandfold, always driving me deeper into myself. peace be with you, haramullah tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com ================================================================= Orig-To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Satan, the Shadow, and Maturation (was all the comments on Satan) 49971002 aa2 assalam alaykum, my kin. "Jacquie Weller" : # Is it not true that Satan, the Angel lucifer was cast out of heaven by # God... true in what sense? the stories about Satan are rather new in comparison to the ancient scriptures. where history is concerned it is difficult to substantiate the association of "Lucifer" with anything but popular Christian motifs and the Book of Isaiah's mention of the King of Babylon. the stories about angels cast out of heaven are most often originally derived from the Book of Enoch and its variations. in these texts the rebel angel is called 'Azazel' and 'Semyaza' and has little or nothing to do with any 'Lucifer' or any named 'Satan'. and yet, why do we find these stories compelling? what is their deeper implication that we might retain what is a fictionalized account of an historic incident? I suggest that it is due to the nature of the Beast, that our first instinct is to castigate, condemn and banish that which we find objectionable. a popular song by the band Genesis says it well: you kill what you fear and you fear what you don't understand. unable to kill the shadow, the uncontrolled, the wild, Satan, many of us would prefer to banish, ignore and recharacterize this entity, whose living correlates (wilderness) are now subject to the worst torture and destruction humans can muster (out of greed and fear). in this sense Satan, our chosen Adversary, the light-bringing angel of the wild world, has indeed been cast out of our lives by what we mistakenly identify as 'Allah'. and yet Allah is the Most Compassionate, the Most Beneficent. even to those whom we fear and loathe Allah offers Paradise, and, standing at Hir feet, we do best to let their relationship mature of its own and refrain from judgement completely, being wary of the wild forces of the world and leaving the possibility open that we may reconcile with what we take to be evil. # ...is it not true that the Lord's Prayer specifically ask for God's # will (or Allah's will to be done on earth as it is in heaven). this may well be true, though of what this will consists and how this relates to Satan I think is a very complex subject. is the will of humankind different than the will of Allah? can they ever coincide? can the will of Allah change, like winds in a storm? when does firm opposition become mercy? so many confusing issues, how are we to arrive at any certainty? # ...a warriar of Allah would recognize that good overcomes evil. the knowledge of good and evil is a curse. as the Old Boy once said, knowing beauty, we create ugliness. so knowing good we create evil. the winds of Allah blow through all the cosmos, and yet we take some to be 'ill' and some to be 'fortunate'. the sage says 'so be it' and 'this too shall pass'. # ...We are all commanded to love...even though we have much to learn # about what love is. and yet love cannot *be* commanded. it must arise naturally or it is false, a sham, a deception, confused and adding to the jumble that we already take love to be in our error. # ...you have to be courageous about love and it is not always a # feel good rose garden and a life of leisure. for this reason I allow my love of the dark, of the shadow, of myself, and of the wild nature (Satan) to shine forth in a black flame of perfect passion. there will be objections, there will be condemnation, criticism, claims of falsity and delusion. all these I acknowledge and go on loving That which humanity otherwise shuns and deplores. the condemned are my charge, to the end of time I will be Allah's Beloved in whatever form SHe has chosen. # I do not worship Satan. I cannot say Hail Satan. no one is asking you to do these things as I understand it. # ...I can recognize that I have been my own enemy and transcend the # shadow self through compassion and mercy. in the Jungian sense we never transcend our shadow, since the shadow is a polar, unconscious body of rejected elements we cannot bring ourselves to acknowledge, accept and love. only through the integration of these forgotten and castigated elements can we begin to resolve ourselves and truly engage unconditional compassion. this begins in the midst of what we might take to be 'Hell', the encounter with the Adversary with whom we may have grappled so long and so hard in the past that we have begun to believe our own projections and imaginings, let alone those of society. guardedly, we can begin to see Satan for what SHe is rather than what our fear paints Hir face to be. with careful attention, we can begin to see that SHe is an important part of us, has a role to play in the maturation of our personality, and transform both of us in a gesture of quiet accord. peace be with you, haramullah tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com EOF
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