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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.magick.goetia,alt.christnet.demonology,alt.paranormal.spells.hexes.magic,alt.pagan.magick
From: nocTifer 
Subject: Nature and Origin of Demons (was To Summon a Demon Helper)
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 00:27:24 GMT

50010730 VI! om Hail Satan!

luckyhoodoo@aol.com (LuckyHoodoo):
>>O.K. now you are freaking me out because I was just conversing with a friend
>>about this and my own personal beliefs is that I don't make a distinction
>>between "demons" and "spirits" since "daimon" means guardian spirit in Greek.

olavknbryglebryglebrygle@online.no (Nygaard):
> ...your belief is not just a belief - it's fact. 

that Greeks didn't (always) distinguish between different characters of
spirits? yes, this is true.

> The early church used the term daemon/daimon/demon as a
> collective term for the "false gods" of the pagans, assuming 
> that they must be servants of Satan decieving the people and 
> leading them away from God.

not just of local non-Christians/non-Jews (pagans), but eventually of 
all other competing religious. very seldomly the Christians accepted
an old god as a facet of Christian Religious tradition (usually
covered over; e.g. "Brigit" who became a saint to the Irish Catholics
and was previously a goddess, or the South American Aztec goddess 
in vision who was accepted as a facet of the Holy Mother Mary, or
even, if one looks deeply, Michael the Archangel, who was a god in
some other culture before becoming an archangel).

but it is even more complex than this as demonologists like Weir
and others have expressed their beliefs and these have been
accepted into at least folk if not ceremonial tradition. usually
the longstanding demonology references were given Christian
support because of the battle-mentality (militaristic orders of
demons in the underworld comparable to the categories dreamed up
by the Chinese!).

> Thus what in christian tradition is just called demons are actually
> spirits of the dead, genii loci, gods, and a bunch of other individual
> characters, grouped together and turned into "villains". 

in many cases, yes! and there are also grimoires, or books of lists
of spirits, which have apparently *original* names of spirits given
characteristic description by the writer of the book (sometimes,
such as in the Lesser Key of Solomon, considered to be "evil" or
"dangerous"). some of these grimoires are very poorly constructed,
even though they have been accepted by (largely Christian or at
least Solomonic) magicians and religious for centuries.

what would be valuable would be a list of these spirits from the
perspective of someone unallied to religious traditions at all,
or one which specified clearly where the various descriptions
that it provides have arisen and may be found (thereby contrasting
for the interested reader the differing characters which may be
found).

I have set about the construction of one of these for what have
been called "demons" in Solomonic and general ceremonial magic
traditions as well as folklore, and it is in progress (you can
help make it too if you contact me and contribute sections!):

	http://www.luckymojo.com/altmagickfaq/demonref

described as:

	DEMONIAC GRIMOIRE
	-----------------
	Being a Compendium of Demon Names and Names of Satan
	With Occasional Mention of People and Items Important to
	Arts Sorcerous, Cults Satanic and Realms Infernal
	Including Wrathful, Underworld, and Controversial Gods
	---------------------------------------------------------
	a compilation of quotations, edited by 333

I'm trying to stick with traditional sources (such as grimoires
or very reputable academics) and quote them directly, indicating
at the quote where it was from by a capitalized code. I'd be
happy to have help on this project, which I'd like to continue
editing, and the interested can contact me in email. thanks.

> No wonder they're generally considered to be rather resentful of 
> those who call them up...

that's what I've contended for many years, yes. you can check out
my meager ritual activities with demons at:

	http://www.luckymojo.com/avidyana/shaitan/

or consult with a few diabolists in email lists (they don't tend
to say much on the lists to which I'm subscribed, but that they 
regard devils or demons as valuable to summon and communicate 
with is very obvious -- they aren't inverse-Christians).

I'd like to say also that the Christians weren't the first to
identify spirits in this dualistic manner. the Babylonians, 
Sumerians, Mazdaists, and post-exilic Jews preceded them 
(as evidenced by the figure of Lilith in Judaism, who was a
Babylonian/Sumerian (?) demon before being accepted in the 
cosmology and doctrines of Jews captured by these people).

I've cross-posted this email because I think it pertains to
the broad subject of demonology (summoning, communication,
studying about them, etc.) and spirit summoning in general.

blessed beast!

nocTifer
-- 
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