THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
	a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.christnet.demonology,alt.magick,alt.satanism
From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of CoE)
Subject: Re: How do i give my body to satan to use :)
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 07:44:38 GMT

50010412 Hail Satan! Vom

kathyk20@aol.com (KathyK20):
| [ How do i give my body to satan to use :) ]
| am askin for real
 
the answer will vary depending upon what or who you think Satan to be.
in the case of some historical individual you have to enter a time or
place where slavery is allowed or sufficiently tolerated to be practiced.

if Satan is an impersonal force, then giving your body over to it might
be as simple as doing things which increase or serve this force in some
way. shifting in tune with this force could be seen as 'giving oneself
to Satan'. I would call this 'going wild'. it is variably regarded by
both Satanists and the larger Herd.

as a psychological component (archetype, telismetic image, aspect of
the unconscious, shadow, or anima/animus), Satan's use of your body
might be manifested in taboo-breaking, aesthetic indulgence, pursuit
of bodily pleasures, intense bodily experiences, etc. it might include
getting a body massage (unlocking energy-blocks in your aura),
psychic knots in your somatic system, etc. sociopaths might believe
Satan's use of your body to engage in illegal activities.

where Satan becomes myth, legend, folk tale, and admitted fiction
we start having a little harder time defining how you will give
your body to Satan to use. you could arrange some kind of play
that includes some person you choose to play Satan and have them
use your body in some way. 

Advice:

Satan as I know Hir would be given your entirety best in a
blood pact, in the middle of the night in the wilderness
(at a crossroads even better). get some nice paper,
preferrably something aesthetically pleasing but not so 
fancy as to distract from the contract itself.

make the contract succinct and to the point. don't leave much
room for legalistic disputes or misunderstandings that could
later be used to influence you unduly. be prepared to sign
with some kind of instrument, obtaining your blood for this
purpose. I recommend:

	Ha Satanas

	I, ________, render unto you my entirety
        in opposition to our enemies, in exchange
        for the satiation of my every desire.

	

blessed beast!

boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of CoE)
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From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of the CoE)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.christnet.demonology,alt.magick,alt.satanism
Subject: Re: How do i give my body to satan to use :)
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50010414 Vom Hail Satan!

kathyk20@aol.com (KathyK20):
>>>> [ How do i give my body to satan to use :) ] | am askin for real

"SOD of CoE" :
>>> make the contract succinct and to the point. don't leave much room for
>>> legalistic disputes or misunderstandings that could later be used to
>>> influence you unduly. be prepared to sign with some kind of instrument,
>>> obtaining your blood for this purpose. I recommend:
>>>
>>> Ha Satanas
>>>
>>> I, ________, render unto you my entirety in opposition to our 
>>>  enemies, in exchange for the satiation of my every desire.
>>>
>>> 

"Blue Rajah" >:
>> How long does Satan have to fulfill a given desire?  Twenty-four hours? 

no time-limits. it is a mutual alliance contract, suspendable by either
part at any time.

>> If Satan doesn't fulfill hir end of the bargain by leaving some 
>> desire unsatiated, what happens?  How would it be enforced?

we each have the option to suspend our participation in this
contract as we see fit. if we think we're getting something
out of it, then we'll continue our end of the alliance.

therefore, if I perceive that a desire is unsatiated then I will
assess whether what I have given in service is proportionate
to the desires satiated. if I think so, I'll continue putting
energy into service. if I do not, then I'll suspend the contract
and inform Satan of this development.

>> A contract like this, with no time limits, no penalty clauses, and no
>> means of redress in any case, seems both naive and foolish.

then don't undertake it yourself. agreements between individuals and
gods, spirits, demons, and whatnot are as much mystical workings as
they are legal contracts. they have a special kind of quality that
won't necessarily be subjected to strict logical analysis. that is,
to a certain extent they are personal. thus if you have qualms about
some specific contractual arrangement, don't undertake it. if you
feel comfortable with it, carry it through. this applies as much to
magical oaths to organizations (e.g. orders) as to spirits (whether
you think of them as demons or gods or Satans).

"Satyr" :
> Indeed.  It seems all the more foolhardy since, by some accounts, Satan
> has considerable legal experience.

by whose accounts? Satanists? my experience is that Satan tends to get
the short end of most courtroom encounters. developers and exploiters
of the wild have the upper hand where convincing human judges that their
welfare is not at rist is concerned. the record is pretty clear. most if
not all of the 'Horrible Risk Due To Losing Your Immortal Soul' kind of
material seems to come from *CHRISTIANS*, whose believability about
Satan should be considered seriously suspect and critically analyzed.

the problem with your critiques of my contract are that you don't seem
to be taking into account with whom the contract is *made*. you're
reacting as though I was attempting to have an agreement with the
Christian Adversary. that wild nature may be the adversary to
Christians is, to a great extent, their own problem (because the wild
is within them as much as without them). where it becomes more difficult
for the REST of us is when these same Christians (and those who share
their paradigms and values) get to be in charge of High Technology
that increases their exploitative power. combining this with the classic
'Destroy All Evil Agents As Is Our Right' mentality is a travesty.

I recommend further study of who or what Satan truly is before
continuing your attempts at assessing my contract with Hir. to
put it another way, what contracts with comparable entities have
you made, and how did you word these?

blessed beast!

boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of the CoE)
-- 
mailto:nagasiva@luckymojo.com ; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html 
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From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of the CoE)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.christnet.demonology,alt.magick,alt.satanism
Subject: Re: How do i give my body to satan to use :)
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50010414 Vom Hail Satan!

boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of CoE):
>>	I, ________, render unto you my entirety
>>        in opposition to our enemies, in exchange
>>        for the satiation of my every desire.
>>      

steelwolf@mmcable.com (The Steel Wolf):
> ...If the signator's every desire is not granted, 

satiated, not granted.

> would Satan be committing a breach of contract, thus invalidating 
> the signator's obligation to uphold his end of the agreement (i.e. 
> the surrendering of his/her "entirety")?  

if I'd given my entirety in opposition to our enemies, yes.
I keep this in mind and merely watch the progress of our
contractual activity. until that time, I don't expect that
our mutual roles will be fulfilled. it is a WORKING pact.

> Also, if one's entirety is surrendered 

rendered, rather than surrendered.

> specifically in opposition to mutual enemies, 

correct.

> does this intrinsically place a restriction upon the surrendering 
> of this entirety such that it may *only* be used "in opposition 
> to...enemies"?

it may not be 'used' at all, for it is an application of energy
toward opposition of our enemies. as a contractual alliance,
there is a plain exchange of one's entire energies and self
toward a purpose in exchange for an effect upon desire.

> While I would tend to agree with you that if one devotes oneself to a
> deity/archetype 

note that this is NOT a very good description of the above contract.
I am already dedicated to the goddess Kali. I desire and need no
contractual arrangement with said goddess. my understanding is that
Satan is a somewhat unpredictable aspect of Kali's wildest side
which I intend to serve through support and witnessing as to its
actual character.

> one should do so without "room for legalistic disputes or 
> misunderstandings", I'm not certain that this particular 
> contract completely eliminates such possibilities.

inasmuch as it compels nothing and sets up a mutual arrangement
of support in areas of our influence, we each decide on the
carrying out of our individual roles. if we don't like what we
are getting, we may suspend our particular applied energies.

>"Because you can't cotton to evil.  No sir.  You have to smack evil
> on the nose with the rolled-up newspaper of justice and say, 'Bad
> evil. Bad, BAD evil.'"
>                          - The Tick

I agree that opposition to evil is valuable, but too many people
are too willing to accept the assertion that Satan is evil and
deserves opposition without investigating who or what Satan is,
and whether this entity is truly evil or just seems so from a
position of moral ignorance and dualistic projection.

careful where you aim that newspaper. ;>

blessed beast!

boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of the CoE)
-- 
mailto:nagasiva@luckymojo.com ; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html 
mailto:boboroshi@satanservice.org ; http://www.satanservice.org/ 
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From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of CoE)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.christnet.demonology,alt.magick,alt.satanism
Subject: Re: How do i give my body to satan to use :)
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50010503 Vom Hail Satan!

Blue Rajah" >>> How long does Satan have to fulfill a given desire?  
>>>> Twenty-four hours? 

boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of the CoE) describes what he
should properly call his pact or compact:
>> no time-limits. it is a mutual alliance contract, 
>> suspendable by either part at any time.

steelwolf@mmcable.com (The Steel Wolf):
>That isn't in the contract.  If I were to enter into a contract--a
>legal agreement--such as this, I would certainly expect all of the
>terms and conditions to be included therein.

since we each are the highest authorities, it can hardly be, 
in conventional terminology 'a legal agreement'. instead, it
is an agreement, amongst sovereigns. in a limited sense it
it can be called a contract, but not 'legal' in the traditional
sense of the word (because we aren't appealing to some social
or divine authority to enforce it.

>>therefore, if I perceive that a desire is unsatiated then I will
>>assess whether what I have given in service is proportionate
>>to the desires satiated.

>This concept of proportionality also isn't in the contract.

a natural assessment of the value of an agreement of alliance
sustained through continued mutual interest.

>>agreements between individuals and gods, spirits, demons, and
>>whatnot are as much mystical workings as they are legal contracts.

>Agreed.  I just think that if these are what *you* understand the
>terms of the contract to be, then the contract is inadequately worded
>and may well work to the signator's detriment rather than to the
>advantage of both parties in question.

how could it possibly work to anyone's detriment? who would 
'enforce it' against one of us?

>>thus if you have qualms about some specific contractual arrangement,
>>don't undertake it.

>Or perhaps a contract with different terms is in order.

agreed. I've been pretty consistent in my emphasis that the compact
should be amenable to the desires and needs of both parties.

>>this applies as much to magical oaths to organizations (e.g. orders)
>>as to spirits (whether you think of them as demons or gods or
>>Satans).

>Yet a contract is unlike a magical oath in that the terms of the
>contract are flexible and open for negotiation.

this is as much true for magical oaths to organizations, though
the organizations would probably like you to think yourself
constrained to the terms it desires.

blessed beast!
boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of CoE)

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From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of CoE)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.christnet.demonology,alt.magick,alt.satanism
Subject: Re: How do i give my body to satan to use :)
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50010503 Vom Hail Satan!

bobo details the terms of his compact with Satan (wild nature):
>>>>> Ha Satanas
>>>>>
>>>>> I, ________, render unto you my entirety in opposition
>>>>> to our enemies, in exchange for the satiation of my every desire.
>>>>>
>>>>> 

"Blue Rajah" >:
>>>> How long does Satan have to fulfill a given desire?  Twenty-four
>>>> hours?

"SOD of the CoE" :
>> no time-limits. it is a mutual alliance contract, suspendable by either
>> part at any time.

"Blue Rajah" :
>Then the contract is void from the start.  

it is voidable from the start, yes.

>Neither party is obligated to fulfill their part.  Satan can use 
>her body and then suspend the contract without fulfilling any of 
>her desires.  

if using her body is what she *wants*, then Satan is fulfilling
one of her desires in the acceptance of that part of compact. 
however, we're really talking about satiation of desire, which
is different than fulfilment. an alliance with one's wild nature
can be of immense importance to the fulfilment of desire also. 

>Or Satan can fulfill her desires and then she can suspend the 
>contract without letting him use her body.

satiate. the satiation of human desire is valuable to Satan
because it is human desire which drives exploitation and
consumption of the wild. if anyone may lose out here it will
be Satan, who is already losing out so devastatingly that
any kind of compact that could inspire the Herd to let up
would be of benefit to engage.

>So the contract is utterly pointless.

not to both the parties concerned. beneficial as long as there is
any sort of alliance in mutual interest.

>> I recommend further study of who or what Satan truly is before
>> continuing your attempts at assessing my contract with Hir. to
>> put it another way, what contracts with comparable entities have
>> you made, and how did you word these?

>I don't make contracts with entities I conjure.  They're pointless.

perhaps we're talking about two different kinds of entity. I have
not "conjured" Satan, I have discovered Hir. that you mayn't
perceive Hir as independent doesn't affect my interests in making 
a compact. in fact, if more of us made pacts with Satan we'd enjoy
a far more compassionate world.

blessed beast!
boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of CoE) 

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From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of CoE)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.christnet.demonology,alt.magick,alt.satanism
Subject: Re: How do i give my body to satan to use :)
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50010503 Vom Hail Satan!

"Blue Rajah" :
>>> Boboroshi was making some assumptions that weren't necessarily true.

"SOD of the CoE" :
>> mine was an example which Kathy could use to her benefit.
>> y'all wanted to take it out of context and make something
>> more of it than it was. not too surprising. there is quite
>> a bit of sensitivity surrounding the person of Satan. a big
>> propaganda campaign has set up this situation. it supports
>> Christian attempts to convert by propping up a bogey.

"Blue Rajah" :
>Kathy said nothing at all about wanting to exchange the use 
>of her body for the satiation of her desires.  You made more 
>out of her question than was there.  Hence my comment that 
>you assumed a bit.

an example which served me which Kathy might use as fodder for
the construction of her *own* compact was what was offered. if
I were going to construct something for Kathy I would try to
determine:

	* who or what she thought Satan was

	* what she wanted (apparently to have her body used,
	  as if she is somehow more than or different than
	  her body; Satan's relation is therefore important)

	* what she might want in return (she asked for nothing,
	  but we might presume, based on Satan's reputation,
	  which is well-deserved as I see it, as having some
	  authority with respect to the pleasures of the flesh)

and once these were analyzed I could construct something that
would satisfy my own interests. in some cases no contract will
truly serve (as with cosmological evils whose scruples include
the breakage of any contract they deem worthy of such).

>My comment about your assumption has nothing at all to do with 
>the nature of Satan.  That's another assumption you're making.

it did seem that way to me. thanks for your patience with me.

>>> The desire to be controlled by something or someone vastly
>>> more powerful than oneself, be it Satan or Jesus or Krishna
>>> or Baron Samedi, is a common religious impulse.

> ...this comment .... ...was about Kathy's question 
>concerning how she could give her body to Satan to use.

why did you think that Kathy wanted to be controlled by "someone
vastly more powerful than herself"?

>> read more carefully. control is the issue, but you are
>> absolutely mistaken to presume that Satan is something
>> entirely other than yourself.

>Satan means "Adversary".  Sometimes you are your own adversary and
>sometimes another is.  Satan is an office, not a person.  

it does seem you have presumptions about the nature of Satan.
I find that some treat Satan as an office, but usually those
whose religion tends toward the Judeochristian (and usually
the more Jewish because based on Old Testament, like in Job).

>So is "Christ".

these are contested, of course.

>Sometimes you can be your own Christ and sometimes it's someone else.

here I think you're talking about conditions, not offices. I suppose
it could be an office in the sense of Rosicrucians (e.g. Magus), but 
there are also historical individuals whose popularity has extended
to referring to them as *exemplary* of this condition ('Christ Jesus',
'Buddha Gautama', etc.), even though there are apparently others who
have achieved that condition. of course hard-core religious will say
that there's only one of the being in question, but you and I do not
appear to dwell in these presumptions.

>>> A contract is a conditional surrender. Better still is
>>> unconditional surrender.
>>
>> 'better'? I wouldn't suggest that, especially if you don't trust
>> or admire the being with whom you're entering into a contract.

>But the way you describe it isn't really a contract at all.  It's an
>entirely voluntary cooperation with no rules and no consequences.  
>To enter into that sort of arrangement with someone you don't admire 
>and trust is just as foolish as your toothless "contract".

as two sovereigns, we come together out of mutual interest and form
a compact without pretense of some higher power to give any agreement
we may forge the foundation of 'teeth'. one might perhaps better call
it 'pact' I suppose, or 'treaty' or something similar. I was using
the term 'contract' in a nonlegal sense (because there is no law
beyond Do what thou wilt and we're doing that and no more).

>The whole point of a contract is to assuage distrust about the
>participants' capacity and willingness to fulfill each others' 
>obligations. If you trust the person that much, you don't need 
>a contract.

without trust that the participants will fulfill their part, 
outside a social system or some cosmological hierarchy one
cannot make strictly legal contracts at all, let alone those 
which are designed to serve both in a mutual alliance, because
there is no legislative authority which will support them.

>Unconditional surrender to a higher power provides a much greater 
>sense of relief from responsibility, and thus a greater release 
>from self-imposed inhibition, than the constant monitoring of 
>the relationship to be sure you're getting your fair share of 
>the goodies.

most of us are already at war with Satan. forging some kind of
alliance can only benefit us by reducing the violence. if our
interest is sincere Satan benefits (which benefits us). if 
Satan's interests are sincere we both benefit. if either of us 
faulters, then we can attempt to regain that enthusiasm.

blessed beast!
boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of CoE)