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From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nocTifer)
Subject: Fascist Satanism is an Oxy-Moron (was Re: Satanic Nazis ...)
Date: Mon, 11 Jan 1999 22:37:32 -0800

49990110 IIIom Hail Satan!

quarren@aol.com (Quarren), along with the others in this thread,
don't address its subject line, continuing a discussion of 
some anti-hitlerian song about his single testicle and ignoring
a real problem in the Satanist community.


I would like to take up the opposition to fascism of all sorts,
inclusive of neo-nazism, as compatible with the common virtues
of Satanism as they are typically understood, and open up a
serious discussion of how bigotry and totalitarian political
sentiments can have any reasonable place in a quasi-religious
movement ostensibly in emulation of the overthrow of oppressive
regimes and the rebellion against unwanted authority.


beginning the conversation with the most widely-known expositor 
of Satanism, Anton LaVey, he is sometimes ambiguous on the matter, 
though his text often includes protective language such as that 
regarding the limitations to the actions of Satanists as regards 
sexuality:

	Satanism condones any type of sexual activity which
	properly satisfies your individual desires -- be it
	heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or even asexual,
	if you choose. Satanism also sanctions any fetish or
	deviation which will enhance your sex-life, so long
	AS IT INVOLVES NO ONE WHO DOES NOT WISH TO BE
	INVOLVED.
	_________________________________________________
	_The Satanic Bible_, Anton LaVey, Avon Books, 
	  1969; page 67.  my emphasis -- nocTifer.
	-----------------------------------------------	

that is, LaVey stipulates that the limitations of ethical
behavior, especially where sexuality is concerned, may be
found in the realm of CONSENT.  where "animals" (that is,
nonhumans, which LaVey nor many others have learned yet
to categorize *along with humans* as a subset of animals,
even though CoSatanists prefer to emphasize this notion
in their "Nine Satanic Statements") and children are
concerned, the Satanist, according to LaVey (and most
CoSatanists after him) DOES NOT OFFER THEM ANY HARM (with
the exception being made for killing nonhumans for food,
presumably in a manner which does not include torture).

in fact it is only within certain extreme circumstances
that LaVey proposes violence, and this in retaliation for
nuisance or disrespect, typically "in one's own lair".

given this system of ethics, it is difficult to understand
how any CoSatanist could possibly tolerate the standards
of National Socialism or neo-nazism, and yet only a year
or so ago I was informed by a local grotto-master that he
and his cohorts were fond of "parading about in nazi
uniforms and jack-boots" and called publically for the 
"showering" (implied gassing/killing) of street people in 
order to further what he called 'Social Darwinism'.  

this veers strongly from the merely misogynist writings of 
a liberationalist antinomian to the classist and ridiculously 

elitist adoration of the 'taboo of fascism' (faux in its 
actual manifestation, apparently -- the same grotto-master
confided that they didn't really *believe* in nazi ideas).
it comports with 'nasty and scary' images for the purpose
of tweaking the establishment (in their area liberal and
democratic) and has no serious political underpinnings
aside from the possible benefit of preserving the right to
stupidity based on an ill-conceived notion of what nazis
and the Third Reich were really about -- the elimination of
the genius and individualism which most Satanists applaud.

and yet it was LaVey who took as his central source, for
an uncited portion of _The Satanic Bible_ a tract of race-
hatred (anti-semitic; anti-Christian: R. Redbeard's) 
stripped of its most egregious elements.  and there is an 
easily visible contingent of CoSatanist expression which is 
at least overtly racist and fascist (adorned with swastikas 
and nordic hyperbole) in character. 

articles such as "Satanism and Racialism", by the editor 
of "Not Like Most" magazine (authored by Matt Paradise in
issue #6, a writer of one of the alt.satanism FAQs and a 
publisher of an interview with me in the same issue :>) 
have even gone some distance to analyze into triviality the 
real and important distinctions between Satanism of an 
individualistic and liberational character and fascist 
ideologies, indicating with terms like 'racialism' a 
distinction from culpability, and that phrases like 'hate 
crimes' are 'thoroughly subjective'.  Paradise walks a very
thin line, never directly contradicting nazi ideology or
fascist values generally, never taking the side of Lucifer
in the metaphorical struggle with the totalitarian demagogue.

instead he seeks to overly-emphasize the anti-Christian
commonalities of racist political culture (conveniently neglecting
a review of the Klu Klux Klan or other "Christian" organizations
like it) and supports free expression, spiting the unpopularity
of these insane and self-destructive political pathos.  at
his most corrosive, he generalizes upon the spew of white
supremacists, claiming that this is somehow reflective of
Satanism "if spread to a more inclusive plane".

the core of the issue in LaVey as reflected in writings like
these of CoSatanists is the variably-interpreted phrase
"Social Darwinism", something lamentably twisted out of the
curriculum of biology to justify and explain all manner of
human domination and violence 'in the name of progress'.
in the end such novel imperialistic schemes come to imply a
stratified social culture, often presided over by the
vainglorious Satanists, comfortable in their supremacy and
tied to some superauthoritarian self-support, compassionless
and abandoning the principles upon which the better stories
surrounding the Romantic, rebellious Satan are founded.

yet how can this be reconciled with LaVey's clear claims 
associating Satanism with "real justice" in such text as
may be found quoted in Blanche Barton's work?

	People should be allowed to stratify themselves
        naturally, without interference from apologists for
        incompetence.  No one should be protected from the 
	effects of his own stupidity....

        ...If a person is ethical, productive, sensitive, and
        knows how to conduct himself among human beings, fine;
        if he's a destructive, amoral parasite, he should be
        dealt with quickly and cruelly....

	...It's certainly extremism, but we aren't against
        Jews, Blacks, Whites... we're against *all* insensitive,
        death-loving people....

        ..."All we want, those few of us 
	who *have* the strength to realize what's going on,
        is the freedom to create and entertain and share with
        each other, to preserve and cherish what we can while
        we can, and to build our own little citadels away from
	the insensitivity of the rest of the world."

        ... Satanists aren't out to smash justic, rather to
        encourage it.  The real anarchy is the *present* lawless
        system, in which punishment is practically nonexistent.
        Convictions and sentencing are now gaffed to protect the
        weak and inferior.  Public floggings, stockades in the
        public square, the pre-eminence of the Executioner -- 
	all gone.
	__________________________________________________
	_The Church of Satan_, Blanche Barton quoting 
	  Anton LaVey, Hell's Kitchen Productions, 
	  1990; pp. 79-88.
	-----------------------------------------------

the "Social Darwinism" promoted by LaVeyians appears either 
to be severely misunderstood, or is couched in alarmist and
incendiary phraseology so as stir up attention despite the
very rational libertarianism which LaVey eventually settles
into promoting in the core of his doctrines.  

such claims leave absolutely NO room for fascism, and, as 
Jeffrey Deboo has written in his publications denouncing
Satanists who affiliate with racists and bigots of all
types, those who seek out fascist ideologies would create
an environment which is inhospitable to the Satanist
lifestyle of individualism, and are thus self-contradictory
to self-interest and to the Satanist community as a whole
(see my upcoming essay on Deboo's Satanism to be published 
on the internet).

where other types of Satanism are concerned there is a great
variation with respect to political leanings.  most seem to
enjoy the rebellious nature of the Promethean spirit, and
to these, stultifying and totalitarian bigotry is not at
all attractive, being but more of the oppression that they
may identify with the Christian or post-Christian
establishment. certainly as Paradise and others have 
remarked, the desire to inflame, to dress badly, to cause
a ruckus (to have an effect through the support of what
at least on the surface appears to be sociopathic groups
and symbolism) is important to some Satanists, however
seriously this debilitates or slows the social platforms
put forward by individuals such as LaVey or those better-
versed in political science).

commentary welcome, chime in with your comparison, contrast
your favored totalitarian demagogues and their virtues. ;>

blessed beast!
nocTifer

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