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Carny and Conmen vs Prophets and Politicians

To: alt.satanism,alt.magick.tyagi,talk.politics.misc,talk.politics.libertarian
From: (nocTifer)
Subject: Carny and Conmen vs Prophets and Politicians (was [CoS FAQ]...)
Date: 8 Jan 1999 11:50:35 -0800

49990108 IIIom Hail Satan! (followups set appropriately)

"Chris Casper" :
# You mean Cos or laveyans have people asking questions....

of course. the CoSatanists are an authoritative source on the
subject of Satanism (their type). they have high visibility
and persistent participation in Satanist communication media.
it is natural that people will go to the Church to get info
on Satanism and unfortunately common for organizations like
them to put out a somewhat biased FAQ which explains a 
perspective (their own) on the subject. 
given that LaVey is the world's most visible Satanist (however
seriously he is taken) and that the CoS spearheaded the social
culture of Satanism from its earliest days (did you forget all
the hooplah in the late 70s and early 80s with LaVey in the
media?), given the wide distribution of _The Satanic Bible_,
by LaVey, why would you expect it to be any different?

it sounds to me like you're merely an anti-CoSatanist, a very
limited and polarized approach.

# I thought you all were just misfits of a con artist, but 
# now I am to understand you have a FAQ to fall back on....
# My the con artist (lavey) really must have determined 
# that someone out there would take him serious and ask 
# questions.

this is supposed to be a CRITICISM?  HAHA!  you've missed
the point as much as have those who have been conned, Chris!
the fact that the social bugaboo of "satanism" fostered by
French occultists of the turn of the century and believed
by Roman Catholics and other Christians enough to 
propagandize against it (eventually turning it into a big
witch-hunt scare for $-moneymaking) could be turned into a
legitimized "religion" (described and accepted by the
US armed forces in its handbooks on religion; described by texts
on the sociology of religion in academic circles, studied
by journalists and hype-sales-hack writers who want to help
the popularity) by LaVey and the Church of Satan (partially
provided emphasis by the CoS-spinoff, the ToS, led by former
CoS member Michael Aquino whose subsequent work deserves
to stand on its own merit) is a testimony to the POWER of
the message fomented by these folks and its character.

I have always said that LaVey seems very much like a carny
to me, but I have not said this intending it to be taken
as a serious CRITICISM of the man.  the ability to steer the
nuveaureligious herd toward self-deterministic, atheistic,
and anti-religious, existential directions is of great VALUE
to the human species.  many great con artists of the world
are ADMIRED and RESPECTED despite any social censure they
may draw based on their antinomianism.

# Get a fuckin Life People..Lavey was just a con man out 
# to line his pockets...

but how did he do it? while saying "WHO GAINS?" that is,
he was like the modern stage magician who says "this is a
very old trick, and I'm going to show you how it is done,
and I am very happy to have you here so that I can fool
you in other, more subtle ways. by the way, if you want
to be a magician too, these are tricks you can practice
for your friends and family." not only this, but he is
being religio-political in his presentation, indicating
the weaknesses of the establishment and its religious
culture, pointing out the value of what has come to
fruition from the materialistic paradigm(s?) of modern
Euro-American societies.  of course he embraces these
things, does not call them by their correct names, and
identifies them with "Satanism" (in effect saying 'you
are all Satanists, welcome to my club, stop deceiving
yourselves into thinking that you are 'religious'), and
compliments them as worthy and pleasing results.

if he was out to line his pockets did he succeed?  how
did you ascertain that this was his goal? how can you
gauge his success?  how can you be sure he wasn't after
something more long-term or important?

# He is DEAD thank you.....What are you all trying to do 
# with web sites commemorated to him, make him into Elvis 
# or maybe a fuckin xtain....He died...get over it

his presentation appears to have impacted enough people
in positive ways that they are mourning his death and want
to remember him fondly in public ways. if he was a con man
as you and I have indicated (I never met him, didn't spend
any time with him from which I might make this assessment
more responsibly, did you?), then he appears to have
achieved at least a modicum of success in this regard. if
this is the case, doesn't this deserve to be admitted?

how close was what he said to revolutionary religion of
other sorts, inclusive of Christianity? that he categorized
"Christianity" in a very simplistic fashion appears to be
lost on the greater number of Satanists who were either
inculcated with idiocy masquerading as Christian or who
have seized upon LaVey's text as gospel and a known even
though they may wish to separate themselves from him by
virtue of criticizing him (weakly).

# Lavey was just a con artist...

what should we do in response to con artists? are any of
them beneficial to human history? what are the limitations
that con artists face in affecting the development of
individuals and social movements?

when should the term 'just' be prepended to 'a con artist'
and does this circumstance and the man (LaVey) qualify?

# Hail Satan
# Hail Lucifer

what, you're worshipping a cross-dressed Venus now?

blessed beast!

-- (emailed replies may be posted); cc me replies;;

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