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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.satanism,alt.religion.wicca,soc.religion.pagan,talk.religion.misc
From: (nagasiva)
Subject: Balanone: Satanism and Neopaganism (was Satan who??? ...)
Date: 14 Nov 1996 03:42:26 -0800

[from alt.pagan: (Balanone)]

general On Nov 03, 1996,
ik135@cleveland.Freenet.Edu responded to an earlier post
re: Re: Satan who???  Re: Salem in 1692 - part 2

 >    Well, Balanone, I'd actually be quite interested to hear
 > by what definition you classify Satanism as a form of modern
 > Paganism, and in what way every statement  made about Satanism is
 > untrue, as you claim.

No, not every statement made about Satanism is untrue.  But every
statement made about Satanism in the post I responded to was untrue.

If someone accurately defines Satanism as a) a worship of man's human
nature and the indulgence in same, b) a delight in the freedom against
the various restrictions imposed by Christianity and related religions,
c) a recognition that there are many worthwhile qualities assigned to
Satan by Christian religions (eg: pride, power, independence of thought
and will), d) a recognition that Christianity took many ancient
religions which worshipped dark gods and melded those gods together into
what Christianity calls Satan and melded the religions together into
what Christianity calls Satanism, then by this analysis it's clear that
Satanism as practiced by the majority of modern Satanists is a Pagan

 >    It is my understanding that Satanism is 1. a Christian
 > heresy, and 2. exists within the same mythos as the Christian
 > religion, 3. does NOT exist within the mythos of ancient Witchcraft,
 > modern Wicca, or Neo-Paganism, and 4. involves the worship of, or
 > some other relationship with, the character refered to as Satan by
 > the Christians.

1) Satanism is not a Christian heresy.  Many/most forms of Satanism
predate Christianity (Christianity's Satan and what they called Satanism
were based on preceding forms). Many other forms of Satanism relish the
good qualities Christianity has proclaimed are evil Satanic qualities
(pride, power, will), but otherwise have no use for Christianity or its

2) Satanism does not exist within the same mythos as the Christian
religion, since almost no Satanist gives any credence to any of the
Christian gods, prophets, or spirits (Yahweh, Mary, Jesus, Paul, angels,
demons, whatever).

3a) Satanism has very many close ties to ancient Witchcraft, largely
because magic is magic, and also because Christianity took ancient
Witchcraft's practices and religions and called them Satanism.

3b) Satanism has many ties to modern Wicca, since most of modern Wicca
is derived through Gardner from the same sources which modern Satanism
uses for inspiration and magical methodology.

3c) Satanism, or at least various subgroups within Satanism, is/are
form(s) of Neo-Paganism by Oberon Zell's own definition: "The term
Neo-Paganism is applied to the modern re-emergence of ancient Pagan
religious values, including the sacredness of all Life and the worship
of Nature." Several forms of modern Satanism follow and revitalize
ancient Pagan religious values from a variety of ancient societies and
religions (Setianism and its dedication to the inspiration of the
ancient Egyptian Set is just one example).

4) Most Satanists do not worship (or have some other relationship with)
the "character referred to as Satan by the Christians" but instead they
work with the ideals of rebellion, intelligence, pride, independence,
indulgence, will, etc., which have been demonized and applied to Satan
by Christianity.

 >    I do not mean to imply that a Satanist considers his/her
 > activities to be evil, or that there is only one form of Satanism,
 > and I may be wrong in my statement that a Satanist is on the "side"
 > of Satan in a battle for the throne of heaven. This last point, I
 > readilly admit, is the pinion of certain non-Satanists ABOUT
 > Satanists, and I must follow my own advice in not identifying a group
 > of people by the definitions supplied by those who have declared
 > themselves against that group.

But that is what you did above.  You didn't use the definitions supplied
by Satanists (readily available in the alt.satanism FAQs and through
other sources), but instead used supposed definitions supplied by
others, duplicating and spreading their ignorance. This is why you made
the mistakes you did.

 >    Nonetheless, among the hundreds of Pagans I have met both in
 > modern and non-modern Pagan traditions, from faiths across te world
 > and the ages, the overwhelming opinion I have heard expressed  is
 > that Satanism is NOT, in fact, a form of Paganism, and derives  from
 > the Judaeo-Christian-Muslim body of belief.

Yes, that is the overwhelming opinion.  Unfortunately for you, truth is
not a democracy, and public opinion has often been wrong. This is just
one more example of that.


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