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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.christnet,alt.philosophy.zen,alt.philosophy.taoism
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva)
Subject: NLudd: Reading Translators
Date: 12 Jan 1999 11:56:21 -0800

[from alt.zen: nedludd@ix.netcom.com (Ned Ludd)]

In <01be3ada$c8b06ec0$2b290685@x1info43> "SilentNight"
 writes: 

TC posted the Vietnamese words:
> Su said :
> Ta^`m : search for
> nguye^n : source
> phi hu+~u : there is not
> bo^?n : (your) own, your self. (bo^?n also has the meaning of base)
> Cu+' : Grip to
> Bo^?n : your own, your self
> Die^.c : also
> vo^ : there is not
> nguye^n : source.

TC's first translation:

    Search for source, then there is not his own.
    Grip to own, then no source.

TC's retranslation:

    Search for source, (then) there is not (your) own (or your self).
    Grip to own, then there is no source.

Sphere's translation:

    Search for your source and your self is not found.
    Grip yourself and no source is found.

Ned's translation:

    Seeking a source, you find no-self,
    Clinging to self, you lose the source.

SilentNight's translation:

    Search the origin without your own self,
    But rely on the Self without your origin.


  This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.  Everybody's looking at
  the same words and coming up with very different stuff.

  It's disgusting.  And it happens with all translations.  You're
  never really looking at a translation, you're looking at a 
  translator.  And it happens in the extreme in Bible translations.

  Here is a real travesty.  An abomination.  It comes from the
  modern translations of the Bible, which are generally done by
  fascist puritans hell-bent to twist God into their idea of a
  sinless late-20th-century Republican.

  This is one of the oldest verses in the Old Testament.  It is
  widely conceded to pre-date the texts of the bible, from some
  unknown source of great antiquity:  (Genesis 6:1-4)

     And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face
     of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, that the
     sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair;
     and they took them wives of all which they chose.  And the
     LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for
     that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and
     twenty years.  There were giants in the earth in those days;
     and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the
     daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same 
     became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

  This is one my favorite Bible verses for several reasons, not the
  least of which is the beauty of the words spoken out loud.  But
  what does this verse become in the hands of modern translators?

  Here is the same verse, translated from the SAME Hebrew words, by
  one of the modern sick-o fascists:  (from "The Living Bible")

     Now a population explosion took place upon the earth.  It
     was at this time that beings from the spirit world looked
     upon the beautiful earth women and took any they desired
     to be their wives.  Then Jehovah said, "My Spirit must not
     forever be disgraced in man, wholly evil as he is.  I will
     give him 120 years to mend his ways."  In those days, and
     even afterwards, when the evil beings from the spirit world
     were sexually involved with human women, their children
     became giants, of whom so many legends are hold.

  Please pay careful attention to the two phrases "beings from the
  spirit world" in line 2, and "evil beings from the spirit world"
  in line 7.

  Compare these two phrases to the similar line in the preceding
  KJ version.  In both cases the phrase is "sons of God"!

  I looked up the Hebrew on this one.  The actual, literal phrase
  in the source language is "sons of God".

  So, this sick son-of-a-bitch translator has turned the actual,
  literal phrase "sons of God" into the phrase "evil beings from
  the spirit world"!

  And why?  Who knows? - maybe he has an ax to grind.  Maybe he has
  some dogma about God only having "One Son" that he wants to protect
  and treasure, despite the words in the Old Testament contradicting
  that dogma.

  Makes me want to puke.  And these asshole translators have the NERVE
  to call their company TYNDALE HOUSE PUBLISHING - Wheaton, Illinois.

  William Tyndale set the whole tone and many of the words of the
  KJ Bible, 100 years before it was translated, and DIED for it
  (garroted at the stake, before being burned) because Henry VIII
  didn't like him).

  They are a disgrace.  Their "Living Bible" isn't even worthy to
  use as toilet paper.

                                                  Ned
-- 
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http://www.abyss.com/tokus; http://www.luckymojo.com/mojocatSPELLS.html