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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.wicca,alt.religion.pagan,alt.pagan,alt.traditional.witchcraft,alt.witchcraft
From: lorax666 
Subject: WICCAN SECRETS AND OATHS (spoiler warning!!)
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 10:26:25 GMT

50030303 VIII 3 x 3 day!!  HAPPY NULATIX!  apologies for dupes!

Evul Wikkun Warning!

===============================================================
   SPOILER: (Please leave at top of post if this is quoted.)
===============================================================
 This post may contain information integral to the rites of
 initiation within Wiccan tradition, and as such, while it
 does not constitute a betrayal of any secrecy oaths because
 those who posted it are not so bound, it may provide glimpses
 into Wiccan tradition and ceremony that would otherwise
 spoil the surprise or power for those who will seek to be
 initiated into some Wiccan lineage in the future. BEWARE,
 therefore, and avoid the material below if it be thy will.
===============================================================
   THOSE REMOVING THIS SPOILER DO SO AT THEIR PERIL!

Jani: 
>> Even outsiders understand that someone who treats 
>> oathbound traditions the way you did [??]
>> is probably best avoided.  

sri catyananda :
> I think i know what is meant by "oathbound traditions" -- 
> i am a member of a fraternal order that requires an oath 
> of secrecy at each grade of initiation, and i assume that 
> Wicca covens are somewhat similar, 

it's difficult without the context and knowing what it was
that Jani is complaining about here to discern what might
be meant by 'oathbound traditions'. my understanding and
conjecture is that secrecy isn't the only thing 
potentially being discussed here. 

> especially since, as i understand it, the founder of 
> Gardnerian Wicca was a member of the same fraternal 
> order as myself 

what order was this? what name did it have when Gardner
supposedly joined it? who was its head? who heads it
now? what is its (or are its) name(s) at present?

> and incorporated some of the order's oath-taking 
> traditions into Wicca....

quite possible. and yet oaths in Wicca differ based on

	* lineage and traditional connections
	* degree of the rite being undertaken/conferred

so you'll find secrecy at issue in many, while in others
it will pertain to how to treat your kindred in The Craft
or how to pursue relations to the Gods or to the Mysteries.
the 'secrets' about Wiccan rites are often helpfully
published by its membership, but you have to know where
to look and what to look for. for example, there's some
mention of what might be pertinent here in Crowley
(ha! Vivianne! not Aleister):

	The wording of the oath reflects a climate of
	persecution, promising to protect our brothers
	and sisters even unto death and 'never to
	reveal any of the secrets of the Art, except
	it be to a proper person, properly prepared,
	within a circle such I am now in'. These are
	words which present problems to writers of
	books such as this of how to speak of Wicca
	while retaining the element of secrecy which
	must always be part of a mystery religion.
	This requires a certain delicacy of judgement
	in steering a course which is acceptable to
	the majority of Wicca. However, they do not
	just apply to writers and we are all
	responsible for ensuring that we teach the
	mysteries only to those who are worthy and
	responsible people.
	---------------------------------------------
 	"Wicca: the Old Religion in the New Age",
	 by Vivianne Crowley, Aquarian Press, 1989;
	 p. 77.
	=============================================

like Freemasonic, Co-Masonic, and quasi-Masonic orders,
there are the usual repercussions for failing to adhere
to the oath taken, though these vary in intensity, and
relation to fantasy. VCrowley herein remarks that the
penalty for First Degree is having all one's weapons
turn against the witch that betrays it. I have heard of
this with respect to other Gardnerish trads, and it is
implied that these are *magical weapons*. the rite given 
in VCrowley indicates that the Second Degree pertains
to reincarnations, being marked for identification in
future lifetimes, and being bound by swearing "by my
past lives and the hopes of my future ones to come".
presumably they may be ended if she betrays the Craft.

she goes on to say that they give a Second instruction
pertaining to the oath of that Degree which includes
the following text (Ibid., p. 206):

	By this initiation, you will be sworn for ever
	to the Gods, to honour and to serve them, and
	to make manifest their will upon Earth.

while I don't see her mention of an oath for Third
Degree, you can get a better idea of what is included
in initiation oaths for Wiccans. some will not wish to
speak of it on account of their feeling that they are
oathbound not to reveal what they've learned or that
to which they've been exposed in certain circumstances
(compare the Masonic and/or Co-Masonic 'in lodge' or 
other restraints to quasi-Masons).

what was probably complained about by a good number of
initiated Wiccans (or those familiar with conventional
restriction oaths) is promise to treat kindred in a
helpful and friendly (or at least nonaggressive) manner,
or perhaps not to reveal their identities and connection
outside of the ritual Circle. this is part and parcel 
of other quasi-Masonic initiations.

> So i presume Jani is claiming that you violated an 
> oath of secrecy. What such an oath may comprise in the 
> Wicca tradition, i do not know, but i would like to know. 

conversation pertaining to this will probably only be
engaged by radicals like me or those who have gone so
far beyond their social circle structure that they no
longer regard their oaths as restrictive. this is in
part why I did not take initiation within conventional
Wiccan covens: I did not wish my will to be restrained
and I instead trusted the rites of Thelemites with 
this care (and have not been disappointed!).

as in many esoteric cults, quite often the details of
what these binding oaths mean is left ambiguous, and
initiates are, especially if they are mobile and not
extremely-grounded in their connections to the coven,
likely to interpret them in a variety of truly odd and
creative ways. this sometimes leads to Wiccans treating
*all Wiccans* as if they are oathbound to one another,
for example, or restricted as regards certain information.

> In my order, Co-Freemasonry, the oaths of secrecy refer 
> only to holding secret those things that transpire within 
> the lodge, most particularly the teachings, symbolical 
> work, wording of the rite, grips, signs, passwords, 
> and so forth. 

this is my experience as regards how the Officers of 
the OTO interpret their ritual oaths also. being quite
sovereign in my will, I don't feel compelled to agree 
with their interpretation of the initiations, but they
are clear that were I to act contrary to them I would
be ejected from membership, so I keep that in mind. :>

> But in the Ordo Templi Orientis, a different 
> magical order also built on a foundation of oath-binding, 
> i have read that the oath includes a promise to never 
> reveal the names of female members. (Not male members, 
> just female members. I don't know why.) 

here you're talking about the Gnostic Mass, which I do
understand is called 'the central rite of the OTO', but
I'm not sure how it plays out as regards initiation oaths.
I've never heard of oaths to this effect, but it may be
some part of the restraints of the AA or something (whose
members are sometimes referred to as 'Brothers' and 
as 'Sisters' regardless of their actual gender.

> So perhaps in Wicca there is a similar oath with respect 
> to not revealing ritual teachings? 

indeed. some will even contend that saying that there IS
such an oath to be oathbetrayal because it mentions what
is contained within the initiation ceremony.

> Not revealing member names? 

particularly the CIRCLENAMES of people and connecting up
their street-ID with their Neopagan 'nyms inside Circle.
I gather that this is in league with Burning Times myths.

> Does "ravening" excuse one from an oath? How? 

Joseph drew out an interesting quote on the matter of
'ravening'. apparently it means 'fabricating', though I
will be interested to see any additional commentary. 
it is not a term I've run across offline before in any
magical or neuvoreligious community.

> Also, while i am asking, does leaving a coven excuse 
> one from the oaths made in that coven? 

typically no. in fact it may be part of the covening or
"hiving" process which are important to the progenation
of the Craft through time and space, like establishing
a new church once the old one gets enough membership.

fun. :>

blessed be!

lorax666