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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.occult,alt.religion.wicca,alt.pagan.magick
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (lorax666)
Subject: Wicca and Magical Methods
Date: 28 Feb 1998 18:51:40 -0800

49980124 aa2 Hail Satan!

[some personals and technicals omitted; perm rec'd to repost public]

#>about how these reframed perspectives are applied.

# Mainly by maintaining focus & concentration on state of being 
# (physical, mental, emotional etc).  Then when the information 
# about a given situation becomes known to the conscious mind, 
# in the moments, remain open to the experience & various 
# conclusions that arise, or put another way, not resisting the 
# new realizations, experiences, emotions, conclusions, etc
# that arise.  (Atleast that is where I am at these days...) 

# I usually find if I practise this way I do not need to perforn 
# formal ritual, except in rare cases.  

so it appears that ritual is for you a means of achieving
mystical results and, having achieved it without formal rite,
you can abandon this construct in favor of your learned 
internal process.


# It is a good thing too, because maintaining the awareness often 
# takes a lot of energy.  I observe my peaks & valleys, highs & 
# lows, ecstatic experiences & everything in bewteen with the most 
# objective view point as I am able.

I think I understand now (if the above has any sort of accuracy).
what I'd suggest is the possibility that external behavior 
eventually may shift to match the internal changes you are now 
causing and are going to effect if you continue your observations.

it is possible you WERE 'in phase' to the social culture around 
you, yet if you continue to tune into what is actually happening 
within you, then I suggest you may unlock all kinds of natural 
rhythms and intuitive centers which will shift you 'OUT of phase' 
with your surrounding social culture.  at that point you will 
begin a new Way, innovating along the course dictated by 
intuitive directives.  I think this is how new and relevant 
religion is made.

I know this process as Initiation (beginning), Orienting (or
Grounding if you like), and Divination (activating change
in conformity to the will).  it starts as a purely internal
readjustment and can terminate in the suffusion in the divine
and the establishment of a completely new social order.  it is
the ascension to the Rosicrucian Office of the Magus as the
revealer of the New Way (cf. Crowley in _Liber Aleph_ and in
somewhat in _The Book of Lies_, where he mentions the various 
people he sees as 'Magi' like Mosheh, Lao Tse, etc.).


# The underlying assumption is "the axiom as above so below" 
# or "the microcosm reflects the macrocosm" holds.  

# ...as a result of the axiom, 

perhaps as a result of the reality to which the axiom points.
I've never heard it stated this way, btw.  typically I've just
heard the texts of Hermes Trismegistus (Hermetica) quoted
direct, like: "that which is above is like that which is
below."  there are other religions whereby this kind of
metaphysical principle has come about.  Buddhism (Nagarjuna):
"essence is not different than form, form is not different
than essence."  Judaism (some Kabbalistic book :>): "Malkuth
is the same as Kether, only after a different order."


# we can control or effect changes in the universe by knowing
# ourselves very well & causing changes within ourselves.

I suppose so, but I would caution against attempting to use
oneself as the only tool of magick to effect the change
in the world.  rather, my suggestion would be attuning to the
Goddess and God (or whatever you prefer to call the divine
in your lives) and follow their directives about how to go
about maturation (you may already be doing this of course :>).  
this allows us to see the changes which are important and 
we can use all manner of magical implements, including our 
minds/spirits if we feel the need, to accomplish this Great Work.

 
# Note: I am not terribly interested in controlling that which is
# outside of me.  I am quite interested in knowing how the changes 
# I make in myself cause corresponding changes in myself & outside 
# world so I can make the best decisions about how to attain what 
# I desire & what further magickal techniques I want to employ.  

your will is your Way.  what you say sounds excellent in regards
mystical development but seems a weird and possibly dangerous
magical enterprise where you begin shifting your internals just
so as to effect external changes.  but I'm not sure I truly
understand you.  

if they are just thoughts that is one thing.  if you are 
reconfiguring your values and emotions in a manner which puts 
you at odds with the gods for the purpose of obtaining your 
desire, I advise against it (I'm a fan of really getting to 
know the gods well and what they are about, of course).  your 
approach appears very cautious and rational, in any case, so
I'm sure you'll achieve marvellous results.


#># awareness leading to the increased effectivity & ability to 
#># size up and handle situations in the best way possible....  

#> sizing up, meditating, reframing, imagining -- these are all very
#> important aspects of preparation.  I don't think they are the gist
#> of the magical work, however.

#> I am not sure I agree.  Perhaps you are farther along in the 
#> the practise of magick than I, or the gist of practise for me, 
#> is determining when it is worth preparing a formal ritual & 
#> when it is not.  The work right now for me is to stay with the 
#> meditating, observing part of the self, while still experiencing 
#> my own life experiences.  Besides, greater consvc 

I would describe myself as having some longer period of exposure
to mystical disciplines.  while I would class mysticism, if it
becomes intentional, as one result of effective magick, I don't
like to say that mysticism is the best or only goal of it, as
some are wont (e.g. apparently Crowley, who talked about 'white'
magick being the (best? and) mystical type).

 		
# ...the mechanism is that described by the microcosm reflects the 
# macrocosm.  By making changes in ourselves we naturally alter 
# the world around us.  

I'm unsure that this is the case, but would not gainsay you.  my
mystical experiences have led me to see the truth of the identity
of myself with all things.  I am not one to separate out the
nouns of the cosmos and say 'they are not I'.  more I would say
with my Thelemic brethren 'there is no part of me that is not
of the gods'.


# Gaining understanding of how our specific actions/magickal 
# operations effect ourselves & our outer worlds is key
# because through such understanding we can choose what changes 
# we want to make, in the moments. 

absolutely.  I find within my experiments/spellings/rites
thusfar that such an understanding comes most quickly when
brutal honesty and critical review are levelled upon the
evaluation of all achievements.  did I do that?  was this
my intention?  or am I taking credit where it is not due?
we can assist one another when we are more courageous by
specifying to our kin what changes we wish to make and then
having them reflect on the transition.  

there is a trap here that I guess I'm talking around.  it
concerns the process of pretention to power and, through
self-deception (the reason many say this shouldn't be done
without a teacher or guru, but I am dubious that this can
or should be applied across the board), blowing oneself
up beyond one's due.  it happens all the time in the occult
world and can be the source of no end of social dispute.

it is one thing to state an intention and then to achieve
it, especially repeatedly.  to me this is the essence of
the work of magick and conforms to the analysis levelled
by the Master Therion in his _Book Four_ (Part III, 'Magick
in Theory and Practice').  however, it is another to keep
an eye on desire, watch where it meets up with the changes
of phenomena and thenceforth take CREDIT for the change.

this is one of the reasons why I think a relationship with
the gods (demons/spirits) can be so important, since we can
shove off any ego-inflating results by disclaiming that we
were assisted by 'the will of the gods'.  unfortunately this
kind of deception game can become a source of rivalry among
beginning magicians who take glamor for the entirety of the
magical path.  some need ego-nurturance (I know I have),
and yet there are paths of danger along this route.
  

# ...I usually find the focusing of one's mind on an outcome is 
# all I need to do to make a desired change.  I want to discover 
# which levers I need to tweek in myself to cause the changes I 
# desire & I want to become aware of which impulses I need to 
# stop because I really do not desire those outcomes.  

my concern is that our desires can sometimes be immature.  we can
desire that a very important and essential element of ourselves
and our lives comes to an end without having any conception of
the role it plays in our lives generally.  it is for this reason
that I suggest observation and self-knowledge prior to the kind
of self-tinkering approach taken by New Age and Chaos practitioners
who immediately (through rite, psychoactives, suggestion, etc.)
begin trying to operate their deep internals.  consider the analogy
of putting a baby in control of a high-powered laser.  I don't know
how much damage an individual is truly capable of doing to others
aside from glamor and deceptive tricks, but the amount of damage
she might do to hirself seems enormous to me.

to illustrate my point, let me bring up something about which I
know you will understand based on our previous exchanges.  say
that in my initial experimentation with mysticism I think that I
discover a means by which I might come to rid myself of my 
'negative' emotional responses.  say I do not desire ever again 
to have to experience fear, anger, lust, rage, whatever it is 
that I think of as 'dark, evil, hurtful energies arising in my 
immaturity'.

now this perspective that these arise in my immaturity is, I think,
quite accurate in some cases, and yet in others it is just that
I don't understand how beautiful and necessary these types of
feelings and energies are to my health and welfare.  by taking
the initiative to REMOVE these 'negative and unwanted' energies
from my life magically I can set myself back years in inner growth,
repressing emotions and denying dynamics that I would have to
have reframed and come to see differently (not just seeing it
at all) in order to understand their value.


# ...In order to understand the subconscious impulses I wish to 
# stop I work on making various bits of subconscious info 
# conscious, mainly through meditative & contemplative measures.  
# As you have pointed out in the past , sometimes we don't
# really want to know all the data consciously, as may be the 
# case in childhood scars on my end.  In these cases I may elect 
# to make a change without bringing all the information to my 
# conscious level (though conventional psycological theories on 
# healing tell you when you confront the scars on the conscious 
# level, you often can overcome/heal those psycological scars by 
# doing so when you are ready.

yes, when we are ready.  timing seems as important as configuration.
part of the blessing of having a guide is that they can see from
outside us and render grounding and orienting influence that is,
one would hope, in our self-interest (rather than, as so often
develops in religious groups, a disempowering counsel).


# I agree with this approach because I have proved its validity to
# myself.)
#
# ...I have used this approach widely over the last several years 
# to overcome the worst problems in my life.  I can't really 
# objectively evaluate the methods because I don't know if I would 
# have solved all the issues below without practising any magick 
# at all (no blind study capabilities).  

in classical science, no 'control', yes.


# I have been actively working on developing & maintaining
# significant relationships with others & overcoming shyness 
# (divorce, but maintain loving relationship with X, WhiteOak- 
# I now have 4 students!!!  involvemennt with various pagan 		
# groups, much less fear when meeting new people for the first 
# time); overcoming scars from childhood (I did resolve with 
# my mother during the cancer experience, but I think there is 
# very little hope of resolving with my father in this lifetime); 
# overcoming various periods of unemployment (I am finally in 
# job with the title engineer & making more than 30K/yr); 
# overcoming cancer!!!!...   

your experience has broadened you as a person and you are an
example of dedicated strength and successful weathering.  I
admire your endurance and your ability to withstand such
difficulties.  way to go, kin. ;>


# Addtionally, in many cases, I had been trying for years to work 
# out some of these issues without success.  When I started 
# applying these methods all of a sudden I started making changes 
# desired for years with great ease.

this is an important insight, I think.  the approach you have
developed has freed up your will somehow so that you can apply
it toward managing the severe challenges of your life and, I
suppose, acting to prevent them from recurring where possible.
this is a very important achievement, whatever its long-term
significance (as you have said above).  

 
# >this relates to effect: detaching from a goal by focussing will upon
# >its accomplishment and then trying to 'let it go'.  this is a mystical
# >effect (magick applied to internals).  I wondered how you went about
# >attempting to change the world outside you.
 
# YES!!!  This is the easy part for me!!!  I develope a full 
# understanding of what I want.	 Allow the most complete image 
# of what I want to rise to my conscious mind.  Intuitively work 
# with the image until it feels right, ibn the flow, of the TAO...
# Then focus all my desire on the image... Bring my desire to 
# peak, in sort of an emotional projection of my desire to the 
# universe, with the desire & image defined in terms of me/the 
# microcosm...  Go about my life

projected desire.  it is in some ways like a prayer, a 
communication of desire to the unconscious and/or divine 
realms, to the zones of power and change.  one of the
reasons I was asking about methods was also because there
are many different methods that people use to achieve 
these types of results -- some are especially intended to
communicate with unconscious realms as understood by
modern psychological theory, coming to see how it best 
understands our expressions, what it could get confused 
about, etc.  


# Take mental note of the desire when it arises, & observe 
# magickal effects as they arise...  watch out for ripples!!

what do you mean here by "ripples"?


# ...don't resist when issues arise I did not think, work out 
# the new issues in the same contemplative way

this strikes me as a very effective method, yes.

blessed beast!
lorax666
-- 
tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (emailed replies may be posted); 408/2-666-SLUG
http://www.abyss.com/tokus       FUCK       http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi