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To: alt.religion.wicca,alt.magick,alt.pagan,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick
From: lorax666 
Subject: Holy Water and Spirit Boards in Neopagan Magic
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:25:30 GMT

50031015 viii

"Bruce Ulanet" :
#># We are planning to hold the séance on November 1, which is All 
#># saints Day. I have never run a séance either, but, I do want 
#># to "get it right". I will be making some "Holy Water*" from a 
#># creek that runs past this house.

it's interesting how we talk about making things, and what is made.

"robin" :
#> How do you make Holy Water?

this is a very interesting question as regards the Neopagan 
community. are there gradations of blessedness which obtain
regarding any object or substance? so many Neopagans come
out of Hermetic backgrounds which can slip into atheism and
materialism that deny blessedness or more than pantheism
that this issue occasionally irks the dogmatic sort.

this extends to the point of Neopagans feel that they have to
put blessing and blessed objects/substances in *quotations*,
almost apologizing for the differentiation in cosmology from
which they were probably conditioned (largely Christian).

#># I intend to get candles, spread the Tarot several times, ask 
#># the spirits to come forth, use a home made Ouija board, etc. 

they're called spirit boards. Ouija (a combination of 'yes'
in two European languages used by Parker Brothers to market
their particular board) probably doesn't apply to your board.

#># ...I want this to be fun, and maybe even get the kind of 
#># willies that people can get from a horror movie, but none 
#># of us wants to wake up anything evil.

as a Neopagan, what *is* evil? where does it reside? unruly
spirits? wild elementals? if that whole God-Created-Everything
cosmology is tossed, then what does 'evil' even mean? something
some Goddess doesn't like? something that runs afoul "karma"?

#># Are there any people here that have done this kind of thing 
#># that could suggest things to do to help this thing really 
#># work well, while not waking up anything evil. We are not 
#># doing this to make fun of anyone, any spirit, or anything 
#># else. A few pointers couldn't hurt.

I don't tend to work with the dead, but I've known a few who
do. they've tended to follow these guidelines:

	* contact people you know if possible
	* minimize contact and remain in control
                 of the interaction via some powerful director
                 who is not the medium(s) if possible
        * focus on light, pleasant subjects 
        * be sincere, offer what the dead *liked*
                 and generally respect them for who they are

"Bruce Ulanet" :
# I will make holy water from the creek that runs in front of the 
# house where we will hold the séance. I will draw it into a clear 
# bottle and "bless" it.

why is blessing in quotes here? I suggest that you actually
bless the water. consider carefully what lies behind your
spiritual orientation. if you don't know, consider the
possibility that blessing the water can include the following:

	* revering the water for its purity, beauty, and clarity
        * praising the water for its fluidity and malleability
        * acknowledging the water's perfection and blessedness
        * preparing the water for its intended use

# Just before we begin, in full view of those that will take part 
# in the séance I will splash some holy water onto the front and 
# back door to "lock the spirits in". 

why would any spirits be there? might they be interested and
watching you at the time of the rite? might they be confused 
by the rite and then be locked into your area? is that the
kind of relationship you really want to have with the spirits?

it is reminiscent of Solomonic magic's treatment of demons, 
as the 'goetic', locking them into some sealed, sigilized
container and then extorting them to use their powers for
one's benefit. consider the ethical implications of this.

# Even if it isn't "real" Holy Water, if those attending the 
# séance believe it is real, then it will be real.

what *would* make water holy, by your standards? is there 
a sacred/blessed thing in the cosmos, by your assessment?

# ...most of us have some level of belief. What we want is a 
# spooky post Halloween scare, & but we don't want to call 
# up the devil.

so this sounds mostly like a stunt or performance, rather
than some actual interest in working with the dead, doing
something psychospiritual, despite your mention of the
prop of the spirit Jake rumoured to live in the area.

if it's just a performance, then why are you interested in
finding out from actual magicians what is done? in order to
avoid 'calling up something evil'? my impression is that
locking up random spirits in your supposed rite is rude to
the spirits and that you should instead invite them to 
stay if they want to and depart if they will. generally,
treat them the way that *you* would like to be treated
were you in their place and condition.

use props to scare people, rather than their misplaced
mistrust in the spirit world. have skeletons rigged to
jump out of the leaves, recordings of spooky music,
and generally haunted-house type accoutrements, instead
of pretending that you are doing something that others
do quite calmly in a frantic and fearful way.

if you don't believe in any of it, summon up the Devil
and don't worry about what religiomagicians may think!

blessed beast!

lorax666
-----------------------------------------------------------
hey, somebody's gotta talk for the beasts.

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