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Jung Cult, Archetype Dogma

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.mythology,alt.pagan.magick,sci.psychology.theory,alt.psychology.jung
From: Solar-Phallus 
Subject: Jung Cult, Archetype Dogma

50030620 VIII PISCES-AGE-Y2006

from my outbox:

> ...Archetypes are not found in the brain..they are not created 
> by evolution and do not have their roots in science but in 
> mysticism.  

are they to be found at all, or are they just imagined?
how can we distinguish between the real and the imaginary
when there is no criteria for distinguishing between what
you are calling the 'spiritual' and what I call the 'imagined'?

> Yes,  I'm suggesting that there is a spiritual realm where 
> consciousness exists outside of the brain and physical 
> body and that this is where this information is stored 
> for us to access....

that's a fantasy. it's unfortunate that occultism and
mysticism have been deluded by this false dualism, but
there is it. please point me to something that you take
to be contrary evidence to my assertion.

if you would like to refute me by asking me (as many 
have) how I would contrariwise explain the phenomenon 
of subjective experience with relation merely to brains
and evolution, then I can do so easily with reference
to the dual-character of consciousness (experiencER and
experiencED; subject and object) which requires no 
fantasy realms that cannot be observed outside the 
minds of religious converts.

> One way to convince oneself of the concept of archetypes ....

one might convince oneself of the reality of irrational
things, but is this truly valuable? what will it do 
to help us apprehend the real, if we are fabricating
fictions and treating them like they have been confirmed
before we even scrutinize and doubt them? this is why I
have maintained that Noll is *correct* in identifying
Jungians as religious (he uses the correct term in his
description: "cult") and archetypes as religious dogmas.

to another, not me, the same author wrote:
> ...this is you saying that there are no archetypes?  
> Why do you say that?  Again,  I do not believe that proof 
> of this will ever exist..you cannot measure something in 
> scientific terms if it is not of the material world and 
> this is why so many things which are now attracting huge 
> amounts of attention will never be able to be proven.  
> And they don't need to be.....now,  I'm really not 
> suggesting that we need to take things on faith alone...
> I think that's something that the religious believe is 
> important/key to their path of following one religion vs. 
> another religion,  but I'm suggesting that we can have 
> and honor knowledge which is obtained by combining our 
> observation skills with our intuition and our intellect 
> and come to our own conclusions which are rooted in 
> "enough proof" to be applicable as tools in our life...
> and yes, in our tarot readings as well.

the burden of proof rests in the laps of those who make
the more outrageous and unusual claims as compared with
other agreed knowledge. you claim an entire "spiritual
realm" but offer no evidence of its reality beyond the
imagination of mystics and religious (whom I call the
deluded and deceived). I am not saying that what you're
trying to explain is illusory, just that your theories
for explaining it are irrational and require a greater
burden of proof than you (or those like you) have
heretofore been able to meet with clear evidence.

the religious consistently opaque, obscure, and cover
over knowledge (which is derived from science, and not
just materialist science, by the way) for the purpose
of making the universe seem more simple, controlled,
and human-centered than it really is. part of the work
of those interested in *truth* is the application of
critical thinking to unravel and dissolve the fantasies
which obsess religious and mystical converts, whether
these are encountered in the study of tarot, astronomy,
time, or the condition and history of all known things. 

when someone says "archetypes are fictions" or claims
that they aren't universal, are conditioned and are
accrued as most other databits in enculturation as one
develops and grows within a culture, then your job is
to point out what you have discovered beyond the
expressions of religious and mystics which supports
these fantastic notions, if you wish to be convincing.

thanks.

Solar-Phallus
        nagasiva@luckymojo.com
-- 
yronwode.com@nagasiva; http://www.satanservice.org/
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