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JMarshall: QBL Terminology

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.occult.kabbalah,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,alt.consciousness.mysticism
From: (nagasiva)
Subject: JMarshall: QBL Terminology
Date: 13 Sep 1997 12:54:59 -0700

[from "Jeff Marshall" ]

nocTifer :
>"Jeff Marshall" :
># I think we must also be careful not confuse Mysticism with magick as well.
># One is active and one is passive.  I personally think we need to access
># both.
>don't tell that to the dancing/whirling sufis or to martial artists and
>ceremonial magicians.  they can be pretty 'active'.  then again, you may
>be talking about something more subtle: the target of the change (oneself
>--> mysticism; or 'actively' causing a change in the world --> magick).


># The second is a Christianized for of the first and gives us such things
># as YHShVH.  The latter is of the Western Esoteric Tradition and is wide
># open to assimilation of many different systems.  Using it, we can relate
># Egyptian to Greek to Hebrew though and symbology.
>I have never been persuaded that these two (Cabala/Qabala(h)) are at all
>different.  could you perhaps point to some of the major Christian(ized?)
>authors in the field of 'Cabala' and compare and contrast this with those
>of 'Qabala(h)'?   there is no absolute difference between Christian
>mysticism and Hermetica (Western Esoteric) from what I can see.  and as
>I understand it 'Cabala' is just an illiterate fusion of 'cabal' and

Well, I don't have the time to go through a run down of all the literature
in this field.  I suspect that you most likely have a far better command
over than I do anyone.  What I mean by the Christian Cabalists are those
that use the study to justify the Christian religion (as opposed to Christ,
which I think is a different subject).  These are people who work completely
within the framework of Christianity and would most likely not be working
with say Egyptian or Sumerian archetypes.  For them Christianity is not a my
those like the Egyptian or Sumerian, but the only true revealed religion and
Cabala "proves" it.  Some of these are discussed in Frances Yates' _Giordano
Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition_.

An example is the construct of YHShVH as the name of the Christ.
Supposedly, this is the movement of Shin-Spirit-into the Tetragrammaton.
Thus it is the animation of the four elements.  The actual name, I think is
more like YHVShAa (last letter Ayin).  Now the construct of YHShVH has bled
over into the Hermetic tradition as well.  There is certainly overlap
between the Christian and the Hermetic traditions as I think the Christian
came first, then the Hermetic.  Perhaps the reason is these "pioneers" felt
like they had to be Christianized or be burned.  Certainly Bruno felt the

># It is also useful as a means in initiation as well, IMO.
>I don't understand this at all.  please explain.

I again rather suspect you know at least as much about this as I do, most
likely more.  Simplistically, it is the reintegration of the Sephiroth into
ourselves and our spiritual awakening as we travel up the Tree to fan the
Divine Spark into a Bonfire.  I am certainly not the first to speak of
initiation and Qabalah, the Golden Dawn used an initiatic basis a hundred
years ago.  If you are curious as to any thoughts I might have, feel free to
visit my website (  In the
Muse section you will find an article entitled "Overview of a Gnostic
Temple" that sketches out some of these thoughts.

(emailed replies may be posted);join the AMT syncretism!!;call: 408/2-666-SLUG!
see; "Clement of Rome taught that God rules the world
with a right and a left hand, the right being Christ, the left Satan." - CGJung

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