a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


QBL and its Character

To: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.pagan.magick,alt.occult
From: (hara)
Subject: QBL and its Character (was Re: Gematria....)
Date: 22 Dec 1998 11:08:28 -0800

49981222 IIIom

Shawn Ogden reviews hara's points on the variability of QBL:
#> I think these are important points to make.  We are in a sense,
#> dealing with a kind of ignorance that doesn't allow for the
#> intermixing of systems.  I think this is the best course of action,
#> because you don't limit yourself to just one type or derivation.

american qabalah :
# It is not my place to disallow anything.  Do whatever you want, mix and
# match whatever you feel like, and best of luck to you.  

ok, and when people have done that, they've mixed and matched NAMES
too, and applied some of those they came across which they were
generalizing to what they were doing.  at that point the co-opted
names no longer applied to the original phenomenon which had
apparently inspired them.  

you say 'do what you want', but then you go on to say that 'those
have *have* done what they wanted were wrong to use terms to
describe what they did that were previously applied to other
contexts.  this is part and parcel of syncretic collage, and what
you appear to be arguing for below is a cementation of language,
a DISALLOWING of the usage of esoteric language for personal
purposes in the construction of novel or reflected systems.

# My point is that Qabalah is Jewish.  

but you are making your point very badly, especially by ignoring
the fact that I have selected *spelling* to differentiate the
various QBLs and you have either overlooked or merely never
spoken to it.  instead you merely repeat your assert that there
is no QBL but Jewish QBL and this has the name "Qabalah".  you
do not describe why it is that Scholem (whom *both* of us have
cited as a reliable authority on the history of kabbalah) wrote
a book called _Kabbalah_ rather than _Qabalah_ as you have it.

if you want to be taken seriously then you ought to begin by
expanding on your assertion rather than perpetuating a shouting
match.  the relevant issues involved here are what the possible
meanings for "qabalah" may be, whether spelling (in English, I
realize that transliteration generates variation here) can be a
useful taxonomical delineator, what qualities a system of thought
and symbol and practice (?) must have to be considered qabalah,
and whether there is anything that compares in any way to what
you are referring to when you say "Qabalah" which is Jewish.

# If you really want to understand Qabalah, study it as a 
# facet of Judaism as a whole.

that's one take on it, yes, and you have asserted it several
times, but you haven't provided explanations for it, support
for it, relevant sources who agree with your perspective,
explanations for why Hermetics aren't sufficient sources (I
am not here asserting that they are, but want to know where
you think they are failing to generage a QBL golem).

# That's not ignorance, it's context.  Ignorance is when one 
# ignores something, like, say, context.

it is your assert that it is context.  the challenge to you
is explain why it is a *necessary* context.  granted that
most if not all that is today associated with QBL may be
found in Judaism, explain why there can't be universals or
transcontextualized QBLs created by Christians, Buddhists,
or Satanists.  if you agree that there can, what do *you*
think that these should be called?  if we have a variety of
spellings for QBLH, why not utilize them to differentiate
the most common derivations of this universal?

-- (emailed replies may be posted); cc me replies;;

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist:

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.


There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase


Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races