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To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com
From: jake stratton-kent 
Subject: Re: qabbalah inquiry
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 18:19:48 +0000

  ------- Forwarded message follows -------
In article , nagasiva
 writes
>49961223 AA1  Hail Satan!  Daos 'Kay?
>
>
>ajh  wrote:
>>>can anyone here concisely, in a nutshell, answer the following question:
>
>>no.
>
>agreed.  but there *are* REF files.
>
>                       http://www.hollyfeld.org/amgkfaq
>
>                       look for the qblref ("Kabbalah FAQ")
>
>
>>>what is the Qabbalah?
>
>>one anwer might be 'an internally coherent system of symbols assumed
>>to correspond to the universe'. there are others.
>
>lovely.  how about 'a body of scriptures important to a culture of
>people who map numerological significance to their language and to 
>everyday objects in support of their emanationist cosmology'?
>
>this applies not only to the Kabblah (Jewish) but also Qabalah (Hermetic)
>or any other (my own Jehovah's Witness Ckabbawlla, for example :>).
>
Yo tyagi dude

I accept something similar to your definition, although not all such
schools are emanationists exactly - see David Allen Hulse's "The Key of
it All" for a major survey of a great many systems definable as
qaballistic, many unconnected with Hebrew. There are many assumptions of
1800's style qabalism which should long ago have been shot down in
flames, and Hulse goes a long way to achieveing just that.

Your definition does not have much currency in the Hermetic movement as
exemplified by the Golden Dawn and its derivatives. Such bodies make
virtually no use of this central element of qaballism, seeing it instead
as a system of correspondences (your "everyday objects" perhaps). The
problem was of course that the Bible, in Hebrew or otherwise was not
that important to the GD membership, so qabalistic exegesis was not an
attractive option. While AL supplied the Holy text for a qaballistic
revival the OTO etc. receive their qabalah from the GD and thus have
very little idea what to do with a Holy Text. Consequently they have
degraded it to a mere symbol for fear that otherwise they will be
stigmatised as fundamentalists.

Qaballistic principles are not fundamentalist principles, a qaballistic
relationship with the Book is on another level entirely.

 I used to let Jehovahs and Mormons in off the doorstep for tea and
theological chat and have yet to meet one with any knowledge of qabalah
or anything like it, they are much the same as the occult scene in that
respect! :-).

Stupid Christians (there are other kinds, usually little old ladies with
common sense and kind hearts, who'd make equally good witches!) have
used numerology in the modern period, but not on any truly qaballistic
lines.


-- 
jake stratton-kent

-- 
jake stratton-kent


From jake@kiblah.demon.co.uk  Fri Dec 27 10:37:11 1996
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Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 18:23:32 +0000
To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com
From: jake stratton-kent 
Subject: Re: qabbalah inquiry
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  ------- Forwarded message follows -------
In article , Will Parke 
writes
>ajh  wrote:
>>can anyone here concisely, in a nutshell, answer the following 
>>question:
>>
>>what is the Qabbalah?
>
>can anyone here, concisely, in a nutshell, answer the following
>question :
>
>what is an OTOer, crowley@thelema.net, doing asking a question like that?
>

>
>                                            -That Damn Kid
>                                             & His Lazy Friday Afternoons
>


The fact is that most GD/OTO types think they know all about qabalism,
whereas what most of them know is only the Golden Dawn system of
correspondences - bearing very little relation to qabalah proper.

What "we all know" about qabalah is similar to what "we all knew" about
the flatness of the earth, and other widely held but dopey assumptions
like that. The fact that more people accept the dumbass interpretation
is no argument against more informed interpretations.

As a later poster notes however this message emanates from QBLH, not the
OTO. The QBLH does promote a more informed/less dogmatic view of
qabalah. All the same the occult revival has obscured the qabalah rather
than clarified it and members of any organisation can be forgiven for
finding it all rather confusing.

The occult revival has been around a long time, and the groups you
mention exemplify it. The qabalistic revival is only beginning, and the
rank and file of most orders are not remotely ready for it, I find that
amusing when it isn't frustrating the hell out of me!
-- 
jake stratton-kent

-- 
jake stratton-kent