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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva)
Subject: Re: Klippoth Nogah
Date: 22 Sep 1995 11:09:13 -0700

49950922 [no objection to posting from quoted sources]

~From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Hsi Wang Mu)
To: thelema93-l@nosferatu.cas.usf.edu
~Date: 49950912 

Do as you please

|Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 21:16:51 -0400
|From: Jeffrey Smith 
 
|The Klippoth is a concept which easy to understand, but hard to explain.

Interesting the many different variations on the term 'qliphoth'/'kleppot'.
I'm very intrigued by this subject and would promote discussion of it
in this elist (taking it to alt.magick.tyagi if we get voluminous).  I'm
currently working out the basis for the second part of _Liber Qliphoth..._
and would like to discuss more about the shells and how people see them.


|To understand the idea,  familiarity with the Lurianic version of 
|Kabbalah would be nice, although not necessary.  

Second time today I've seen reference to Lurianic Kabbalah in relation
to the Qliphot.  So is Luria a major source of it?  I thought it was
a later development, actually.  Perhaps you are only saying that the
study of Luria is a good background for the study of the kliphut.


However, now you begin to speak in terms mythic, regarding the shells
or shards of some 'original Creation' (whatever this means).  You say 
that at

|the point which Crowley termed the Abyss, the Light was too strong, 
|and the Sefirot shattered.  They broke apart into shards and shells 
|(klippoth), and the shells descended into the lower levels.  

You do not say lower levels of what; how do you think the cosmos are 
created if there is an 'upper' and 'lower' level to it?  If there is
no gravitational center to the cosmos, does this mean that these stories 
are false?


|It should be noted that Malkuth was damaged but able to hold onto at 
|least some of the Light it received.  

Neat story.  Thanks for sharing.  That leaves Malkuth (the 'daughter'
of this great cosmic fuck) damaged goods.  A fallen woman, or, as I like
to say, a MATURE woman.  Those nasty Black Brothers.  Too bad God didn't
make Malkuth strong enough to handle their lustiness, eh?


|One important point which is suggestive when considered in relation to 
|"Black brothers":  the Vessels were too weak because they attempted to 
|hold the Light independently, each on Its own.  They did not relate to 
|each other (or maybe I should say Each Other).  Had they interrelated, 
|had they tried to operate together and not relied on their own Self, they 
|would have been able to hold the Light.

Whew, glad they didn't do it, then.  Else we'd never have the beauteous
qlipha to play with!  I knew those brothers were good for something.


|...this catastrophe (which in the orthodox version is presented as 
|something planned beforehand) is what introduced disorder, evil, death, 
|sin,  restriction--whatever you want to imagine as ontologically evil 
|(or at least Not Good)--into the universe.  

I figure that these are the more limited teachings (as relate to such
simplistic dualisms as good and evil) and it occurs to me naturally
that the 'catastrophe', as you put it, introduced change, time, animation 
(the source-point of life), and chaos into the Creation (should you desire 
a linear model of temporality) which had previously been a featureless and
impotent monad.  I think it an improvement, on the whole, and am not really
desirous of putting the genie back into the bottle (though if you want to
try to bribe me, I may hear your offers).


|The redemption of the Universe, the bringing about of Total Good, is 
|presented in the Lurianic version as restoring the Shattered Vessels, or 
|rather the Light that is intermixed with them, to Its correct place in 
|the Divine Harmony.

So focussing upon the Totally Good (d00d) helps bring about the restoration?
Are you sure that the restoration should proceed along those lines, toward
Luria's structure?  Where did it come from and why is it to be preferred 
over alternatives?  

I've been studying the popular model from qabalists (as presented by Crowley 
and some other authors on the subject such as Regardie, Gray and Halevi), 
suspended upside-down in the temple, for a while now.  I constructed a Roots
(Ruts) of the Tree of Life in cyberspace at one time, based on Kenneth Grant's
_Nightside of Eden_ and my own delusions about the contents.  It was torturous
to the sensitive and impatient, and one had to follow a winding path.
 

|The Klippoth--to actually answer the question--are divided into four 
|classes, of which the Nogah is the highest.  

I'm confused.  I've got 'Nogah: 14th Path, whose qlipha is Dagdagiel (55)'.
Why is there a difference here and are these two Nogah's related in some way?


|The other three are totally impure and evil,  but the Nogah is directly in 
|touch with the Light and with the Holy elements, and so is only partially 
|impure.  The Light which must be uplifted is mixed in with the Nogah.  

Then it is of less interest to me.  I am more interested in the darkness.


|The Nogah may best be described as an intermediate state, from which it is 
|possible to descend into impurity or rise into purity.  

Wonderful, what happens if one descends into impurity?  How long does it 
take and what is at the end of the path?  Is there a precise method 
described to achieve such a descent?  I enjoy undertaking the exact failure 
of a proscriptive metaphysic, at times.


|In other words,  it is the state in which we and our world exist;  and by 
|our actions, we purify or we impurify.  We raise up the Light or we 
|strengthen the Klippoth.

Great.  Are there prescribed methods to strengthen the Klippoth?  How can
we best go about that, if that is our desire?  Are there chaotic forces
which can be unleashed into the world, possibly harnessed by master mages?


|Does this clarify?

Raises more issues and for this I am glad.  Thanks.


Free love, when we've time,

Hsi Wang Mu (tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com)
-----------------------------------------
Hsi Wang Mu lives in the Kunlun Mountains of China:
Just cross that Moat of Sinking (even feathers sink out of sight instantly),
and pass through the Ring of Fire surrounding the Mountain Fortress.
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