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To: alt.magick
From: axialthrust@yahoo.com (BhP)
Subject: Kelippot in Jewish Qabala (was Re: Beg. Enoch)
Date: 9 Apr 2002 12:02:38 -0700

Gnomedplume@aol.com (Gnome d Plume) wrote 
>  axialthrust@yahoo.com (BhP) wrote:
> 
> >I'm simply pointing out that what you think is "traditional Jewish
> >Kabbalah" is actually more Christian than Jewish.  
> 
> ****And according to Gershom Scholem and Aryeh Kaplan you are
> wrong.*****

Kaplan and Scholem's interpretations do not correspond with eachother.
 The fact that you think they do shows how uninformed you are about
Jewish Kabbalah.  There's nothing wrong with that - so why do you
insist on acting like you're an expert?

***
From "The Bahir Illumination" translation by Aryeh Kaplan, Weiser
Press, 1979

pp 5, 88-89
"Although Tohu and Bohu usually have the simple connotation of chaos
and desolation, they are here described as the basic ingredients of
creation.  God gives existence to all things, and is therefore the
ultimate Giver.  Creation, on the other hand, must receive its very
existence from God, and is therefore the ultimate receiver.  … In
Kabbalistic terminology, the concept of giving is referred to as
"Light," while that of receiving is called a "Vessel."  Both Tohu
(Chaos) and Bohu (Desolation) allude to these primeval Vessels.  Tohu
refers to the first Vessels, which were shattered, while Bohu refers
to these Vessels after they were restored and rectified.

The original Vessels consisted of the Ten Sefirot in their most
primitive form.  In this state, they could not interact with each
other, and hence, could not give anything to each other.  All they
could do was receive from God.  In order to receive God's Light,
however, a Vessel must in some way be connected to God.  The basic
difference between the spiritual and the physical is the fact that
space does not exist in the spiritual, and hence, there is no way in
which the Sefirot can be physically connected to God.  The only
possible relationship is therefore resemblance.  Hence, in order to
receive God's Light, the Vessel must, at least to some degree,
resemble God.

This presents a difficulty, however.  If God is the ultimate Giver,
while the Vessel only receives, the two are then absolute opposites. 
Therefore, in order for a vessel to properly receive, it must also
give.  What is therefore needed is a vessel that gives as well as
receives.  The ultimate such vessel is man.  If man is to receive
God's Light, he must first resemble God by being a giver.  This he
does by keeping God's commandments and thereby providing spiritual
sustenance to the supernal worlds.  Before he can do this, however, he
must also resemble God by having both free will and free choice, and
this is only possible when both evil and good exist.

The first stage of creation is called the Universe of Chaos or Tohu. 
This is a state where the Vessels, which were the primitive Ten
Sefirot, could receive God's Light, but could neither give nor
interact.  Insofar as they did not resemble God, these Vessels were
incomplete, and therefore could not hold the Light.  Since they could
not fulfill their purpose, they were overwhelmed by the Light and
"shattered", this being the concept of the "Breaking of Vessels."

It is for this reason that these Vessels are called Tohu, which comes
from a root meaning "confounded."  When a person is confounded, it
means that he is perceiving an idea that his mind cannot hold. 
Similarly, the vessels of Tohu-Chaos received a Light that they could
not hold.  Just like confusion and confoundment shatter the thought
process, so these Vessels were shattered.

The broken pieces of these Vessels fell to a lower spiritual level and
subsequently became the source of all evil.  It is therefore said that
Tohu-Chaos is the source of evil (see 11[below]).  The reason why the
Vessels were originally created without the ability to hold the Light
was so that evil should come into being, thus giving man the freedom
of choice, which, as we have seen, was necessary for the rectification
of the Vessels.  Furthermore, since evil originated in the highest
original Vessels, it can be rectified and re-elevated to this level."

"11:  What is the meaning of the verse (Ecclesiastes 7:14) "Also one
opposite the other was made by God."  He created Desolation (Bohu) and
placed it in Peace, and He created Chaos (Tohu) and placed it in Evil.
 Desolation is in Peace, as it is written (Job 25:2), "He makes peace
in His high places."  This teaches us that Michael, the prince to
God's right, is water and hail, while Gabriel, the prince to God's
left, is fire.  The two are reconciled by the Prince of Peace.  This
is the meaning of the verse, "He makes peace in His high places.""
***

Now, Gnome and others, before you jump all over the fact that Kaplan
uses the word evil, let's consider the above passages intelligently. 
First, consider verse 11 which Kaplan refers to.  "Evil" is used in
contrast to Peace, it is akin to Chaos.  I do not know what the
original Hebrew word was that was translated into "evil", so I can't
look further into its meaning in this verse right now.  However, it is
clear that "evil" is not used here as a moral concept, but as a
metaphysical concept, and is not used as the opposite of "good", nor
is used as a correspondance to "sin".

Looking further into Kaplan's commentary, he does make a statement
about humans needing to have free will and free choice in order to
resemble God, which is "only possible when both evil and good exist." 
I imagine you'd love to take this comment out of context and assume it
proves some kind of justification for attaching human morals to the
kelippot, but it can't be disassociated from the section of the Bahir
it is referring to, Section 11 quoted above.  It also must be read
along with its surrounding paragraphs. The first Vessels were
incomplete, they could only receive, they couldn't interact or give,
so they shattered.  There is no moral issue here, we are still in the
pre-human realm of creation.  The Vessels shattered, which is likened
to confusion and inability to hold an idea - the absence of Light.

Now after this happened, we move on to the next phase, where man is
created.  We resemble God because we can both give and receive Light,
where giving and receiving is the same as communicating between the
Sefirot.  Free will and free choice relate to both the flow between
the Sefirot and the flow between Peace and Chaos, clarity and
confoundment, which is the apparent interpretation of what Kaplan
means by "good and evil" mentioned above.  Again, there is no moral
issue here, there is only choice between the confusion of the shells
and the Light of the Sefirot.

Furthermore, in his source, Section 11, Michael of water and Gabriel
of fire are reconciled by the Prince of Peace.  I see this as the
balancing of the outer pillars by the middle pillar.  But however you
interpret this, there is no Satan, there isn't even Samael.  There is
no moralistic comment.  There is only the balancing, reconciling of
energies among the Sefirot.

Here is Jewish Kabbalah source material of a different nature.

***
From "God is a Verb" by Rabbi David A. Cooper, Riverhead Books, 1997.

pp. 28-29
"A great deal of today's Kabbalah refers to the raising of holy
sparks.  This comes from the teaching of Luria, who said, "There is no
sphere of existence, including organic and inorganic nature, that is
not full of holy sparks which are mixed in with the kelippot (husks)
and need to be separated from them and lifted up"

Imagine that you are an artisan with a fixed amount of liquid gold
that is to be poured into a mold to make a perfect work of art.  This
work of art will cast a magical light that will permeate the world and
produce the highest awareness possible in all creation.  However, when
you pour the gold into the mold, something terrible happens: the mold
cracks, and many flecks of gold leak out and float away.  The only way
the work of art can be completed is for you to gather all of the
missing gold in one place so that the mold can be cast again.  As the
gold spreads, however, the flecks themselves split apart until untold
numbers of gold atoms are scattered across creation, each one
surrounded by a shell of dust that hides it.  The gold drifts
everywhere, and the only way you can get the job done of casting your
completed work of art is to employ the help of many others to collect
the gold.

The gold represents the light of divine consciousness, and each atom a
spark of holiness.  If gathered together into one place –not a
physical place, but symbolically the center of the universe- all the
sparks combined would radiate ultimate awareness.  But when scattered,
the sparks drop to denser and denser levels of consciousness,
represented by shells or husks (kelippot) that surround them.  The
artisan and the lost gold is a simple metaphor used to illustrate
Isaac Luria's cosmology known as the Shattering of the Vessels.  This
cosmology was developed from the opening lines of Genesis that say: 
"And the earth was without form (tohu) and empty (bohu); and darkness
was on the face of the deep (tohum)."  The word "tohu" means chaos,
astonishment, or confoundedness.  This primordial chaos was viewed by
Luria as a situation in which vessels that were supposed to contain
the light of creation shattered, and the light was thereby concealed
in "the deep."  The deep is an allusion to death.  The gold is thus
lost.

However, along with chaos there was emptiness (bohu), which implies
that there were other vessels ready to receive the light.  Bohu
therefore represents the potential of creation, and is called in
Kabbalah, the Universe of Tikkun (Rectification).  This Universe of
Tikkun is a container for the collection of all the missing gold.  In
kabbalistic language, the gold of our story is called nitzotzot:
sparks."

And on p 206
"Rebbe Nachman of Breslov, the great grandson of the Baal Shem Tov,
was famous for his teachings on joy.  Joy is a major theme in his
stories.  He said that the roots of depression are "husks (kelippot)
which are at war with all that is holy."  Whenever depression takes
hold, the Divine Presence (Shekina) goes into exile.  Therefore, "the
strength of the forces of holiness and the destruction of the shells
that imprison holy sparks depends upon joy.""
***

I'll let the above quotes speak for themselves.  

I'd like to know how refuting claims that the kelippot are evil makes
me a "Jewish Satanist" or makes any assumption you've made about me
true.  The above sources talk about the absence of light, confusion,
depression, in relation to the shells. There is no Christian ‘good v.
evil' or Satan-related type of evil associated with the shells at all.
 This has been my point all along.

As I said, 

> >In fact, at its
> >roots, the Jewish symbolism is more like your pagan system than 
> >either are like the Christian system.  It's about balance and the
> >absence or presence of light/god/divinity.

Unfortunately, you blew this off and found an excuse to further insult
me with:

> ****That is actually true--but sooner or later, like the hundred
> chimps on typewriters, you had to produce something usable. Now get 
> to the point: what are you selling? Lilith worship? Come on: with it. ***

Must I be selling something?  You're acting rediculous, and not at all
like a teacher or a scholar, at least not one that I'd ever recommend.

You twisted my comments around so much, let's see what you do with
Kaplan and Cooper.  Or maybe you're finally ready to step back and
listen?  If I'm "selling" anything, it's an end to ignorance.

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From: axialthrust@yahoo.com (BhP)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Kelippot in Jewish Qabala (was Re: Beg. Enoch)
Date: 9 Apr 2002 12:02:38 -0700
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Gnomedplume@aol.com (Gnome d Plume) wrote 
>  axialthrust@yahoo.com (BhP) wrote:
> 
> >I'm simply pointing out that what you think is "traditional Jewish
> >Kabbalah" is actually more Christian than Jewish.  
> 
> ****And according to Gershom Scholem and Aryeh Kaplan you are
> wrong.*****

Kaplan and Scholem's interpretations do not correspond with eachother.
 The fact that you think they do shows how uninformed you are about
Jewish Kabbalah.  There's nothing wrong with that - so why do you
insist on acting like you're an expert?

***
From "The Bahir Illumination" translation by Aryeh Kaplan, Weiser
Press, 1979

pp 5, 88-89
"Although Tohu and Bohu usually have the simple connotation of chaos
and desolation, they are here described as the basic ingredients of
creation.  God gives existence to all things, and is therefore the
ultimate Giver.  Creation, on the other hand, must receive its very
existence from God, and is therefore the ultimate receiver.  … In
Kabbalistic terminology, the concept of giving is referred to as
"Light," while that of receiving is called a "Vessel."  Both Tohu
(Chaos) and Bohu (Desolation) allude to these primeval Vessels.  Tohu
refers to the first Vessels, which were shattered, while Bohu refers
to these Vessels after they were restored and rectified.

The original Vessels consisted of the Ten Sefirot in their most
primitive form.  In this state, they could not interact with each
other, and hence, could not give anything to each other.  All they
could do was receive from God.  In order to receive God's Light,
however, a Vessel must in some way be connected to God.  The basic
difference between the spiritual and the physical is the fact that
space does not exist in the spiritual, and hence, there is no way in
which the Sefirot can be physically connected to God.  The only
possible relationship is therefore resemblance.  Hence, in order to
receive God's Light, the Vessel must, at least to some degree,
resemble God.

This presents a difficulty, however.  If God is the ultimate Giver,
while the Vessel only receives, the two are then absolute opposites. 
Therefore, in order for a vessel to properly receive, it must also
give.  What is therefore needed is a vessel that gives as well as
receives.  The ultimate such vessel is man.  If man is to receive
God's Light, he must first resemble God by being a giver.  This he
does by keeping God's commandments and thereby providing spiritual
sustenance to the supernal worlds.  Before he can do this, however, he
must also resemble God by having both free will and free choice, and
this is only possible when both evil and good exist.

The first stage of creation is called the Universe of Chaos or Tohu. 
This is a state where the Vessels, which were the primitive Ten
Sefirot, could receive God's Light, but could neither give nor
interact.  Insofar as they did not resemble God, these Vessels were
incomplete, and therefore could not hold the Light.  Since they could
not fulfill their purpose, they were overwhelmed by the Light and
"shattered", this being the concept of the "Breaking of Vessels."

It is for this reason that these Vessels are called Tohu, which comes
from a root meaning "confounded."  When a person is confounded, it
means that he is perceiving an idea that his mind cannot hold. 
Similarly, the vessels of Tohu-Chaos received a Light that they could
not hold.  Just like confusion and confoundment shatter the thought
process, so these Vessels were shattered.

The broken pieces of these Vessels fell to a lower spiritual level and
subsequently became the source of all evil.  It is therefore said that
Tohu-Chaos is the source of evil (see 11[below]).  The reason why the
Vessels were originally created without the ability to hold the Light
was so that evil should come into being, thus giving man the freedom
of choice, which, as we have seen, was necessary for the rectification
of the Vessels.  Furthermore, since evil originated in the highest
original Vessels, it can be rectified and re-elevated to this level."

"11:  What is the meaning of the verse (Ecclesiastes 7:14) "Also one
opposite the other was made by God."  He created Desolation (Bohu) and
placed it in Peace, and He created Chaos (Tohu) and placed it in Evil.
 Desolation is in Peace, as it is written (Job 25:2), "He makes peace
in His high places."  This teaches us that Michael, the prince to
God's right, is water and hail, while Gabriel, the prince to God's
left, is fire.  The two are reconciled by the Prince of Peace.  This
is the meaning of the verse, "He makes peace in His high places.""
***

Now, Gnome and others, before you jump all over the fact that Kaplan
uses the word evil, let's consider the above passages intelligently. 
First, consider verse 11 which Kaplan refers to.  "Evil" is used in
contrast to Peace, it is akin to Chaos.  I do not know what the
original Hebrew word was that was translated into "evil", so I can't
look further into its meaning in this verse right now.  However, it is
clear that "evil" is not used here as a moral concept, but as a
metaphysical concept, and is not used as the opposite of "good", nor
is used as a correspondance to "sin".

Looking further into Kaplan's commentary, he does make a statement
about humans needing to have free will and free choice in order to
resemble God, which is "only possible when both evil and good exist." 
I imagine you'd love to take this comment out of context and assume it
proves some kind of justification for attaching human morals to the
kelippot, but it can't be disassociated from the section of the Bahir
it is referring to, Section 11 quoted above.  It also must be read
along with its surrounding paragraphs. The first Vessels were
incomplete, they could only receive, they couldn't interact or give,
so they shattered.  There is no moral issue here, we are still in the
pre-human realm of creation.  The Vessels shattered, which is likened
to confusion and inability to hold an idea - the absence of Light.

Now after this happened, we move on to the next phase, where man is
created.  We resemble God because we can both give and receive Light,
where giving and receiving is the same as communicating between the
Sefirot.  Free will and free choice relate to both the flow between
the Sefirot and the flow between Peace and Chaos, clarity and
confoundment, which is the apparent interpretation of what Kaplan
means by "good and evil" mentioned above.  Again, there is no moral
issue here, there is only choice between the confusion of the shells
and the Light of the Sefirot.

Furthermore, in his source, Section 11, Michael of water and Gabriel
of fire are reconciled by the Prince of Peace.  I see this as the
balancing of the outer pillars by the middle pillar.  But however you
interpret this, there is no Satan, there isn't even Samael.  There is
no moralistic comment.  There is only the balancing, reconciling of
energies among the Sefirot.

Here is Jewish Kabbalah source material of a different nature.

***
From "God is a Verb" by Rabbi David A. Cooper, Riverhead Books, 1997.

pp. 28-29
"A great deal of today's Kabbalah refers to the raising of holy
sparks.  This comes from the teaching of Luria, who said, "There is no
sphere of existence, including organic and inorganic nature, that is
not full of holy sparks which are mixed in with the kelippot (husks)
and need to be separated from them and lifted up"

Imagine that you are an artisan with a fixed amount of liquid gold
that is to be poured into a mold to make a perfect work of art.  This
work of art will cast a magical light that will permeate the world and
produce the highest awareness possible in all creation.  However, when
you pour the gold into the mold, something terrible happens: the mold
cracks, and many flecks of gold leak out and float away.  The only way
the work of art can be completed is for you to gather all of the
missing gold in one place so that the mold can be cast again.  As the
gold spreads, however, the flecks themselves split apart until untold
numbers of gold atoms are scattered across creation, each one
surrounded by a shell of dust that hides it.  The gold drifts
everywhere, and the only way you can get the job done of casting your
completed work of art is to employ the help of many others to collect
the gold.

The gold represents the light of divine consciousness, and each atom a
spark of holiness.  If gathered together into one place –not a
physical place, but symbolically the center of the universe- all the
sparks combined would radiate ultimate awareness.  But when scattered,
the sparks drop to denser and denser levels of consciousness,
represented by shells or husks (kelippot) that surround them.  The
artisan and the lost gold is a simple metaphor used to illustrate
Isaac Luria's cosmology known as the Shattering of the Vessels.  This
cosmology was developed from the opening lines of Genesis that say: 
"And the earth was without form (tohu) and empty (bohu); and darkness
was on the face of the deep (tohum)."  The word "tohu" means chaos,
astonishment, or confoundedness.  This primordial chaos was viewed by
Luria as a situation in which vessels that were supposed to contain
the light of creation shattered, and the light was thereby concealed
in "the deep."  The deep is an allusion to death.  The gold is thus
lost.

However, along with chaos there was emptiness (bohu), which implies
that there were other vessels ready to receive the light.  Bohu
therefore represents the potential of creation, and is called in
Kabbalah, the Universe of Tikkun (Rectification).  This Universe of
Tikkun is a container for the collection of all the missing gold.  In
kabbalistic language, the gold of our story is called nitzotzot:
sparks."

And on p 206
"Rebbe Nachman of Breslov, the great grandson of the Baal Shem Tov,
was famous for his teachings on joy.  Joy is a major theme in his
stories.  He said that the roots of depression are "husks (kelippot)
which are at war with all that is holy."  Whenever depression takes
hold, the Divine Presence (Shekina) goes into exile.  Therefore, "the
strength of the forces of holiness and the destruction of the shells
that imprison holy sparks depends upon joy.""
***

I'll let the above quotes speak for themselves.  

I'd like to know how refuting claims that the kelippot are evil makes
me a "Jewish Satanist" or makes any assumption you've made about me
true.  The above sources talk about the absence of light, confusion,
depression, in relation to the shells. There is no Christian ‘good v.
evil' or Satan-related type of evil associated with the shells at all.
 This has been my point all along.

As I said, 

> >In fact, at its
> >roots, the Jewish symbolism is more like your pagan system than 
> >either are like the Christian system.  It's about balance and the
> >absence or presence of light/god/divinity.

Unfortunately, you blew this off and found an excuse to further insult
me with:

> ****That is actually true--but sooner or later, like the hundred
> chimps on typewriters, you had to produce something usable. Now get 
> to the point: what are you selling? Lilith worship? Come on: with it. ***

Must I be selling something?  You're acting rediculous, and not at all
like a teacher or a scholar, at least not one that I'd ever recommend.

You twisted my comments around so much, let's see what you do with
Kaplan and Cooper.  Or maybe you're finally ready to step back and
listen?  If I'm "selling" anything, it's an end to ignorance.

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Reply-To: "Casey Sheldon" 
From: "Casey Sheldon" 
Newsgroups: alt.magick
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Subject: Re: Kelippot in Jewish Qabala (was Re: Beg. Enoch)
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> Kaplan and Scholem's interpretations do not correspond with eachother.

I don't see the differences, could you provide examples?

Meditation and Kabbalah, p. 40, an excerpt written by Chaim Vital

    "From then on, people only made use of techniques involving the universe
of Asiyah. Since this is the lowest of the universes, its angels have only a
little good, and are mostly evil. Besides this, this is a level where good
and evil are closely intertwined [and it is very difficult to separate
them]. This does not bring any enlightenment, since it is impossible to
perceive good alone, and one's perception is therefore a combination of good
and evil, truth and falsehood.
    This is the significance of the Practical Kabbalah. It is forbidden to
make use of it, since evil necessarily attaches itself to the good. One may
actually intend to cleanse his soul, but as a result of the evil, he
actually defiles it.
    Even if one does gain some perception it is truth intermingled with
falsehood. This is especially true today, since the ashes of the Red Heifer
no longer exist. [Since one cannot purify himself,] the uncleanliness of the
Husks attaches itself to the individual who attempts to gain enlightenment
through the Practical Kabbalah.
    Therefore, "he who watches his soul should keep far from them." For
besides polluting his soul, he will also be punished in purgatory (Gehinom).
We also have a tradition that such an individual will be punished in this
world."

"Uncleanliness of the Husks" seems to be equated with the evil mentioned in
the previous paragraph.

Meditation and Kabbalah, p. 286, an excerpt written by the Baal Shem Tov

    "When an extraneous thought comes to you, this is a sign that you are
being cast out. But if you are wise, you can use that thought itself to bind
yourself to God all the more. The thought consists of letters that are part
of the Divine Presence's body, but they fell as a result of the Breaking [of
the Vessels]. The combination of these letters therefore becomes bad,
intermingled with the Husks.
    This is like sweetmeats intermingled with other things. Each thing is
good by itself, but mixed together they are vile and disgusting. This
likewise becomes evil."

The intermixture of the Divine Presence and the Husks is said to become
evil.

Meditation and Kabbalah, p. 291, an excerpt written by the Baal Shem Tov

"When you wish to attach your thoughts to the Creator in the supernal
worlds, the [Evil] Husks (K'lipot) do not allow you."

[Evil] added by Kaplan. I only note this, because he consistently adds the
word evil to the word Husks and the word K'lipot.

    Okay, one more point I'd like to mention here, though. What about Sefer
Yetsirah? Many have said that it, too is full of Gnostic influences, which I
might add are not all similar to Xtianity, and yet, do we simply discard a
useful tool of undoubtable Kabbalistic importance? SY was Abulafia's first
training manual, so should we throw out good ole' Raziel??? Scholem was a
Kabbalistic scholar of the highest order. Assert that he is a tainted source
if you will, but I'm not buying it without some citations from other Jewish
Mystics.
    Kaplan states in his commentary to the Sefer Yetsirah that on the level
of Chokmah we must learn from evil. However, he also states that on this
level, one loses individuality. I think this is more than the ego loss that
many struggle to attain. This is loss of any sort of identity, and it is
only at this level that one can see through the division between good and
evil. He even says that this is above the Understanding which is associated
with the Neshamah. So, good and evil don't exist, but only to people who've
already gone the way of Enoch and Elijah. To the rest of us, evil is still
here.

--
Casey Sheldon

"If it is at night, light many candles, so that your eyes are well
illuminated... Then begin to permute a number of letters. You may use only a
few, or you may use many.  Transpose and permute them quickly, until your
heart is warmed as a result of these permutations, their motions, and what
is derived from these permutations. As a result of these permutations, your
heart will become extremely warm. From the permutations you will gain new
knowledge that you never learned from human traditions nor derived from
intellectual analysis. When you experience this, you are prepared to receive
the influx."
- Abraham Abulafia, Life of the Future World




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From: Gnomedplume@aol.com (Gnome d Plume)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Kelippot in Jewish Qabala (was Re: Beg. Enoch)
Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 06:56:52 GMT
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On 16 Apr 2002 17:48:30 -0700, axialthrust@yahoo.com (BhP) wrote:

(Snip)
>
>Hey I don't have the time to get into an analysis right now - I just
>wanted to post the quotes today as promised.  Besides, I think it is
>clear from these quotes what I was trying to say about how it is
>questionable to assume that everything Scholem said was a factual
>representation of 'rabbinical Jewish Kabbalah" (what I mistakenly
>called 'strict Jewish Kabbalah' earlier in one of these threads). 
>Some of Scholem's statements have significant repercussions in the
>world of Hermetic magick, such as this idea that it is blasphemous for
>Jewish Kabbalists to try to attain actual unity with the Divine.  I
>think some of the arguments that Gnome was making reflect the
>misunderstandings that Scholem created and that were spread into the
>world of Hermetic Magick, in particular as relating to the first
>quoted section above, about myth.  Sorry this is a little rambling and
>wordy, I need to run.

*******After re-reading more of Scholem's *Kabbalah* (I hadn't read it
since 1980) I now understand why you are so intent on discrediting
him. You opened this discussion by challenging the idea of a "Tree of
Evil" (Klippothic Tree) having any origin in Jewish Kabbalism. I
finally  presented Waite's version of it in *The Holy Kabbalah* and
conceded that, although of Jewish origin, it might be late and
corrupted. Now I find that it was not that late at all. IT WAS
PRE-ZOHARIC! Here is a quote from Scholem on page 55 which absolutely
establishes the Jewish origin of "The Tree of Evil." 
How about an apology? *****

HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT (page 55 ) 

 One of Abulafia's pupils wrote (perhaps in Hebron) at the end of 1294
a small book on prophetic Kabbalah, Sha'arei Zedek, which includes an
important autobiographical description of his studies with his teach-
er, and of his mystical experiences.67  On the other side of this
twofold development of the Kabbalah was a school of kabbalists who
were more attracted to Gnostic traditions, whether genuine or only
apparently so, and who concentrated on the Gnostic and mythological
element rather than on the philosophical. The exponents of this trend
set out to find and assemble fragments of documents and oral
traditions, and added to them just as much themselves, until their
books became an astonishing mixture of pseudepigrapha with the
authors' own commentaries. In contrast with the Kabbalah of Gerona,
the pseudepigraphic element was very strong in this branch, although
it is not absolutely certain that the authors of these books
themselves invented the sources which they quoted. This school, which
might properly be called "the Gnostic reaction," includes the brothers
Jacob and Isaac, sons of Jacob ha-Kohen of Soria, who traveled in
Spain and Provence (c. 1260-80) and met their older kabbalist
predecessors: Moses b. Simeon, their pupil and successor, rabbi of
Burgos; and Todros b. Joseph Abulafia of Burgos and Toledo, one of the
leaders of Castilian Jewry of his day .Their main work belongs to the
second half of the 13th century. In Kabbalist circles Moses of Burgos
was widely considered to be endowed with particular authority, and he
was also the teacher of Isaac ibn Sahula, author of Mashalha-Kadmoni.
It is extraordinary that such a complete rationalist and devotee of
philosophical enquiry as Isaac Albalag could see three members of this
school as the true exponents of Kabbalah in his time, with Moses of
Burgos at their head: "His name has spread throughout the country:
Moses has received{ kibbel} the [authentic] kabbalist tradition."68
The speculative side is not altogether absent in this school, and some
frag ments of one of Isaac ha-Kohen's books  69 in particular show
some relationship between him and Ibn Latif, but its true
characteristics are quite different. He developed the details of the
theory of the left, demonic, emanation, whose ten Sefirot are the
exact counterparts of the Holy Sefirot. A similar demonic emana- tion
is already mentioned in the writings of the Sefer ha-Iyyun group, and
in the works of Nahmanides, and it is possible that its origins
stemmed from the east. In the evidence extant, this theory appeared in
pseudepigraphic texts and its roots were mainly in Provence and
Castile. From these traditions came the zoharic theory of the sitra
abra (the "other side"). There is also a strong ten- dency here to
arrange long lists of beings in the world below the realm of the
Sefirot -that are given specific names -and so establish a completely
new angelology. 

******No wonder you were so anxious to poop on old Gershom!******

Gnome d Plume