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Golden calf

To: soc.history.ancient,alt.archaeology,sci.archaeology,alt.mythology,sci.anthropology
From: "Charles Lincoln" 
Subject: Re: Golden calf
Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 00:28:43 GMT

I don't know whether this discussion is getting more serious or less so, but
the figure of 2 million people involved in the Exodus into Sinai is quite
preposterous----even with the "Peace Canal" now under construction, Sinai
may not be able to sustain so large a population.  However, the text of
Exodus actually refers to a word which can be read as "families" rather than
"thousands"---and this resolves the problem that has preoccupied writers
since WM Flinders-Petrie:
        "Thus we may put the case in brief by saying that not more than
about 5,000 people could be taken out of Gosehn or into Sinai.  If the
number of the population stated in Exodus and Numbers were correct, the
600,000 men would imply at least 3,000,000 people, which would equal the
whole population of the Delta on an agricultural basis; and there is no
trace of a depopulation of the Delta at this period."
        Researches in Sinai, 1906: 208.
        If the calculus of 5 people per family is correct, however, then 600
men/families would equal 3,000 involved in the Exodus, and this is less than
Petrie's estimate of the maximum possible.  While even 3,000 escaping
Shasu/Hapiru in Sinai would be a huge group for the late Bronze Age, and the
problems of water and provisioning would be massive, it is not impossible
that a skillful leader who knew the territory could have accomplished it.
Amazing what variations in translation can do to estimates of accurate
historicity, among other things...
"Matt Giwer"  wrote in message
> Michael Moser wrote:
> > Matt Giwer  wrote in message
> >>"ancient" hebrew religion. I continue to correctly point out there is no
> >>contemporary or archaeological indication of their existance prior to
> >>time of the Maccabbees.
> > Is there any _other_ religion with a Exodus like myth? (In terms of
> > the comparative approach existance of similar believes would support
> > your version).
> I point to science not comparative religion.
> As to a unique feature, all religions have unique features. What is the
> > For whatever reasons, the Tabernacle + later temple looks similar to a
> > Egyptian temples. Why would they make that up?
> As there is no indication in the OT of their features sufficient to
> them independently there is no way to say what they looked like.
> You will also find Egyptian temples looked the Greek temples and like
> Mesopotanian temples. What is there to make up when Egypt ruled the land
> "before" Moshe to "after" Solomon?
> >>     And there is absolutely no connection any place to bible myth much
> > an indication two million ran away at once simply to die in the Sinai.
> > Do you argue that there could not be a movement of so many people in
> > ancient times? AFAIK each and every major war usually creates a _huge_
> > displacement of people.
> Why do you raise a bogus displacement issue?
> No desert can support that number of people, period. That is why the
> were thrown in to make it less laughable. Two million people can stand
> to shoulder from the Nile to Jerusalem in a continuous line without a
break. You
> do not appear to comprehend two million people. Before modern times the
> Palestine region barely supported one million people.
> >> "No other godS before me" is not monotheism but rather a statement of
the chief
> >>tribal deity.
> > Does that make a difference? i think that's a matter of interpretation.
> As the English Lord God is used over five thousand times in the OT for the
> words YHWH LHM or Yahweh Elohim where Elohim is plural gods and maybe
> I would say the plural is very important and any interpretation has to
consider it.
> >>In case you missed it, Freud was a fraud and a charlatan on the
> >>order of L. Ron Hubbard so
> > i have missed that, somehow ;-) Unlike Hubbard they still teach Freud
> > at universities.
> Which shows only people are very gullible.
> >>All of science including archaeology is against everything of interest
> >>Exodus including its occurance.
> > Where would you exactly look for physical evidence? Artifacts can be
> > interpreted either way (in many instances).
> > A bronze age (and prior to bronze age) civilization would not leave
> > much in any case.
> Israel is the second most dug place in the world after Egypt. Given all
> parking lots and apartment buildings it might be the most dug place. So
> nothing has been found that cannot be traced to other cultures.
> As to leaving traces from that time period, Egypt, Greece and Iraq are
> with them.
> --
> The US plans to defy the UN and invade Iraq
> for defying the UN. Only in America.
> -- The Iron Webmaster, 2070

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