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Various: Shariah and Sufism

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.sufi,alt.islam.sufism,alt.religion.gnostic,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,alt.consciousness.mysticism
From: (nagasiva)
Subject: Various: Shariah and Sufism
Date: 13 Sep 1997 12:15:14 -0700


~From: bryan conn 

Assalaamu Alaikum

We should be using Shariah to judge all things.  If we find any brother
or sister preaching something against Shariah we must not accept it,
whether it is from a "sheikh" or from a more humble origin.  The Shariah
has been set as a guide for ourselves, and if we do not use it in
matters of tasawuuf (and all things) then we are apt to be led astray.


~From: Michael Roland 

At 21:16 27-08-97 EET, you wrote:
>2) i meant i can criticise my sheikh only when he contrasts shariah. 
>I don't care what shaikhs say to keep their mureeds loyal. My example 
>is ashab. 


Dear Sukru Kaya,

A good disciple (in Sufism) must learn from  
Ishmael who gave his neck to his father, Abraham, 
and forget the morality and  
submit only to God's order. 
He/she must see the sheikh as the representative of 
the prophet and must be loyal to dead. 

So give your neck to your sheikh and 
don't move even an inch when he try to cut it.

Now the problem is:
Do we have the REAL SUFI sheikh?


Michael Roland

~From: (Earl Turner)

[some quotation omitted]

Every once in a while I make a post to the tariqas list, trigger a
question, and then forget who I responded too--middle age is rapidly
progressing into old age, I guess.

If you and I have emailed privately once before, forgive the repetitions.

A lot of folks spend a good bit of time discussing whether Shariat is
necessary for Sufi Practice, and progress in the path of Divine Knowledge.
One school of thought holds that the answer to that question is yes, and I
believe that is true.

Many members of that school of thought are convinced that the specific form
of the Shariat that is most efficacious is that derived from the work of
the Desert Prophet--five prayers a day, observing Ramadan etc etc--fill in
the blanks.

My own experience is that Sufism can be pursued in a variety of expressions
of the Shariat--which implies a more general meaning of the term.  Most
communities have some form of prayer, sense of religious duties etc etc.
which could be described as their 'Shariat.'  My own ancestral Christian
denomination, the Baptists, have their own heritage way of seeking God.
After a number of decades of seeking to find the right expression of my
Sufi initiation, I've found that the most fruitful Sufi practice for me is
seek the One within that community structure in which God placed me at
birth.  I'm finding the Treasure that I've been seeking for all these
years, and I'm finding rich opportunities to be of service to the One.

My own conclusion is that down through the ages, the Prophets have given
the world a variety of ways of seeking Reality--that are really just One
Way, with the Prophet Muhammad "sealing" that transmission.  I don't think
its an accident for most souls that they were born into a particular
spiritual/religious community.  Usually, those communities furnish adequate
"practice tools" (from their 'shariah') to seek God. The problem is getting
in the right attitude to make use of them.

To recap:  my own conviction--Shariah is good for the Way;
my definition of what Shariah is goes beyond the view of some.
A Southern Baptist like myself has a form of Shariah
that is suitable for my journey towards Union with the Divine Beloved.

Earl Turner

Why do the nations rage
and the peoples imagine a vain thing?
Psalm 2.1


 Much of what we do frees the ego while binding the soul.  The shariah binds
the ego while freeing the soul.


~From: (Maarof Bakar)


Just a quick reply based on personal experiecne. I was attracted to sufism
because of it provides certain answers to certain verses in the Qur'an.
especially about Isra' and Mikraj (experience of the Prophet going to Heaven).
Basically, sufism to me is the knowledge about God... and after quite some times
... I'm beginning to see the 'beauty' of  Shariah (Law) how it binds me
to my life in this short span of time on Earth. In my opinion. that;s how I 
see the importance of Shariah in sufism.


(emailed replies may be posted);join the AMT syncretism!!;call: 408/2-666-SLUG!
see; "Clement of Rome taught that God rules the world
with a right and a left hand, the right being Christ, the left Satan." - CGJung

From: (nagasiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.sufi,alt.islam.sufism,alt.religion.gnostic,talk.religion.newage,talk.religion.misc,alt.consciousness.mysticism
Subject: MRoland: Sheykh and Sharia
Date: 13 Sep 1997 13:22:45 -0700
Organization: Bay Junction Technology, Inc.
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Message-ID: <5vesml$>
Reply-To: Michael Roland 
X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV)
Path: bridge!not-for-mail
Xref: bridge alt.magick.tyagi:14919 alt.sufi:2579 alt.islam.sufism:2880 alt.religion.gnostic:8757 talk.religion.newage:80038 talk.religion.misc:323868 alt.consciousness.mysticism:13117

[from Michael Roland ]



At 01:38 02-09-97 -0400, bryan wrote:
>First, I'm curious of what your two examples are from the Qur'an where Allah
>orders that which is not Shariah.  Not that I doubt you, I'm just wondering.

No. The stories from the Qur'an which shows that God's Orders are above 
shariah are about Abraham sacrificing Ishmael and Khidr executing 
a boy. 

The stories I mentioned before only showed that a disciple should not 
criticize or judge his/her Sufi sheykh, even if the Sufi sheykh seems 
to break the law. 
A disciple couldn't know the inner side of the Sufi sheykh, 
his/her spiritual stage is below the Sufi sheykh. 
He/she should respect the sheykh and totally obedient. 
We're not in this world to judge other people, 
especially those who are above us (spiritually).
Hajj rite teaches us to discard this judging habits.

A Sufi tradition is not an ordinary religious school.
Sufi sheykhs are not like other religious scholars.
I'll try to explain it like this:

The Sharia are the words of God.
It's just like a hand pointing to the moon. 
The Islamic scholars only see the hand.
The Sufi sheykhs see the moon.

Most Islamic scholars only see God's words.
The Sufi sheykhs see what God wants.

Some Islamic scholars worship God's words, 
and not God Himself.
The Sufi sheykhs only worship God. 

Most scholars only know about God. 
The Sufi sheykhs are intimate with God. 

Most scholars teach people to reach taqwa.
The Sufi sheykhs teach the disciples to reach tawakkal. 

They're different.

You can criticize an Islamic scholar but not your 
Sufi sheykh. 


Michael Roland

Please visit my homepage:
(emailed replies may be posted);join the AMT syncretism!!;call: 408/2-666-SLUG!
see; "Clement of Rome taught that God rules the world
with a right and a left hand, the right being Christ, the left Satan." - CGJung

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