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Philosophy and Submission to Allah

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.sufi,alt.islam.sufism,alt.philosophy,alt.politics,alt.religion.islam
From: (haramullah)
Subject: Philosophy and Submission to Allah
Date: 12 Jan 1999 12:33:17 -0800

49980502 aa2   
assalam alaykum, my kin.
Abdul Karim :
# > # "It is wrong to kill" is a fallacy in that it contains
# > # a false premise; namely that of "free will". 
# > # "Wrong" is fabricated. There can be no wrong
# > # or right with no free will, there simply IS.

# > this is false.  hypnotizing another individual does not make
# > the acts we make them perform suddenly no longer wrong or right.
Abdul Karim :
# Arn't we judged by our intentions? What are the intentions
# of a hypnotized man?

as with the predetermined, the intentions are irrelevant.  
it is what comes to pass that is important, not whether we
intended it.  "I intended no disobedience" is no excuse in
the face of having been disobedient.  it is the difference
between acting defensively to prevent the possibility of 
sin and acting offensively without foresight.  by letting
ourselves be hypnotized we commit the offense delegated to
us by our master.

# >  free will is a separate issue entirely from whether
# > an act is right or wrong.  it simply means that we have the
# > ability (informed or no) to *choose* between the poles.
# Without free will, there can be no right and wrong. 
# When a river floods and kills a village of people
# is there a right or wrong involved. 

# If a strong wind forces you to drive your car off the
# road and you run over somebody where you wrong?
# No, because you had no free-will. Wrong and right
# do not enter the equation because we deem that
# no free-will was involved.
no, these are correctly called 'acts of God'.  Allah operates
outside the envelope of human morals.  there is a different
law for God than for us.

# > # Actually even the opposing concepts of "free will"
# > # verses "determinism" are fabricated. 
# > # Do we think that anything can happen that was
# > # not already known to Allah. And what is our
# > # future is already passed to Allah. 
# > being known to the divine is different than being determined
# > *by* the divine.
# to be "known" by an eternal God is the same as being
# perdetermined. 

prophesy is different than the management of the affairs of Allah.
to know the future is a gift of the divine.  this is a separate
event than *determining* them.

# So Allah know's everything in this bubble called
# "time"....
# Can anything happen other than what Allah knows
# to have already happened? No, how could it.

"already happened" is meaningless to eternal beings.
Allah is aware of all things.

# Now the last factor. Allah is not just an observer
# of this frozen time bubble. He created it. But even
# that is a lie because Allah is beyond time and
# "created" is in time. Our language does not allow us
# to talk about eternity because our language itself is
# temporal.

Allah creates every moment and the potential for our sin
and our avoidance of sin.  given these options, we are
best to be diligent in choosing the Straight Path.

# > if this provides Allah with the responsibility for our acts,
# > then it is complete determinism and we have no role but to
# > play out the character which Allah has pre-programmed.
# > without a role in decision we are incapable of *sinning*,
# > though the acts we may perform will still be right or wrong.
# You can assert that the are right or wrong.

they are described thus in the scripture.  ignorance is no
excuse where sin is involved, though intention may let one off
with a slap on the hand for not being more defensive in one's
behaviors.  letting one's guard down such that we 'accidentally'
sin is just a minor form of the same sin.

# > # I thought that the deconstructionist had put philosophy
# > # to bed? ;-)
# > 
# > perhaps the integrity of language.

# And what is philosophy without language?

I was perhaps being too dry of wit.  I meant that the deconstructionism
assaults the integrity of language and never really gets to philosophy.

# > # ...the only thing I really know is that I don't know. 
# > 
# > that sounds very confused.
# Thank you, I have worked hard to acheive this.

LOL!  to work so hard just to be confused!  an achievement?

# > if all knowledge arises in the
# > head, then confusion is always the ultimate result.  if there
# > is knowledge obtained in the heart, then this will be strong
# "knowledge obtained in the heart" Sorry, I don't know what
# this means. I have only obtained longing.

'knowledge of the heart' is the first definition I ever heard for
"gnosis" (marifat).  it is experiential, obtains from beyond the
intellect, and could be described as 'faith' or 'belief' (a type
of harmony with the One). 

# > and provide direction even when philosophy gives way to a
# > disorientation of information and intellectual knowledge.
# "disorientation of information" Hmmm. Who will determine
# the correct orientation? 

we will, through our efforts at cleansing ourselves and coming
to a deep knowledge of the self.  ultimately it is determined,
as you have said, in advance to our ignorant perspective, by 
Allah, but this is unimportant in the context of our efforts.
peace be with you,
-- (emailed replies may be posted); cc me replies;;

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