a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


Daraul and False Sufism

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.sufi,alt.islam.sufism,alt.religion.gnostic,talk.religion.newage,talk.religion.misc
From: (haramullah)
Subject: Daraul and False Sufism
Date: 28 Feb 1998 19:46:26 -0800

49971230 aa2 Hail Fourth Way!

assalam alaykum, my kin.

# >>Have you read "Teachers of Gurdjieff"? I haven't.
# >>I'm only guessing here, but is Idries Shah saying 

quote the text.

# >>that Gurdjieff (and later, Ouspensky) and the followers 
# >>of The Fourth Way were/are 

who does this include amongst the 'followers'?  did Gurdjieff
or Ouspensky or any who came after claim to be sufis?

# >>not authentic Sufis, but Sufi 'imitators'?

Frank LoPinto:
# >This is certainly the case, especially with regards to Ouspensky 
# >who further smashed an already broken version of Sufism preached 
# >by Gurdjieff.

they claimed to be a kind of sufism, then?  I didn't get this
from the brief exposure I've had to their materials.  'Meetings
With Remarkable Men' (the film) and glimpses at a couple books
(_Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson_, _In Search of the 
Miraculous_) didn't give me the impression that it was a type of
'sufism' which was being portrayed.  perhaps I overlooked it.
there certainly was credit given to sufic inspiration, but this
is only respectful.

Germaine :
# Excellent! I've been trying to find material on Sufi imitators.

why?  I suggest that the criteria for the 'imitators' or the
'false sufis' will naturally vary depending on the source, and
that this often will follow along religious lines.  I further
suggest that the most voluminous material concerning 
'imitators' will be from the imitators themselves, abandoning 
their humility.

# I had visited the Gurdjieff website, 

what is the URL?  I couldn't find it in a brief survey of the
"sufi" Websites I happen to find in the GOO:

# but being new in the study of Sufism, and being without a guide, 
# I find it sometimes very difficult to tell what is authentic 
# Sufism and what is not.

is that not the second question?  the first is 'what is it that
associates itself with the word "sufism"?'  surveying what is
available we may begin a discernment.  this is of course the
broadest route to such a weeding.  without the broad survey,
however, we may fall prey to all manner of imposter who will
promote the detraction of their competitors.

# And thanks for the titles and pen names in your other post. 
# Much appreciated.

there are many who say that Idries Shah is an 'imposter', 
one who does not teach 'true sufism', by their definition.
this is probably also said of all but the most orthodox or
conservative sufi Orders, even some of these discredited as
'failed' or 'sullied', having 'lost the Path'.

another means, and one which you may be taking in your
approach, is the selection of someone who *you* feel is
instructing true sufism.  say we start with Shah, and
further say that this Arkon Daraul conforms to Shah's
standards (by identity or through close proximity).
then we may profit by reading these words, which I found
while reading Daraul's text just in the last few days
(the discussion here prompted me to pick it up, I am as
yet unconvinced of the resemblance to writings of Idries
Shah with which I am somewhat familiar -- _The Sufis_, 
_The Way of the Sufis_, _The Secred Lore of Magic_
and _Oriental Magic_):

	There are many paths within the Order which
	the initiate may take; all will depend upon
	what his natural bent is: what are his inner
	capabilities, which will be 'developed' by
	the training which he is to receive.  Early
	in his training, which takes place primarily
	with a designated teacher from the circle, he
	is given the poem of the Sufi mystic Nadim
	to commit to memory.  It purports to describe
	the False Sufi:

		Who fears man, accuses, slanders,
			claims exclusive right;
		Who preaches travelling, not to
			disciples properly enrolled;
		Who purports to explain the Path
			through assemblies other than
			those of initiates;
		Who denounces a father, son, uncle
			or other relative;
		Who panders to the desires of the 
			raw (immature) in giving
			them promise of things that
			they may want: not the things
			which they must have.
	_A History of Secret Societies_, by Arkon Daraul,
		Citadel Press, 1997; p. 69.

given Shah's writings otherwise that sufism is the heart
of all true religions, etc., I'd think that generalizations
about what groups are or are not 'false sufis' would be
rather impossible to make -- some members of any organization
might qualify, many probably would not, even in nominal 'sufi'
organizations and Orders.

if we are looking for a 'true wrapper of sufism', then our 
best bet may be in the traditional Orders and the poets 
and artists associated with the sufic tradition (e.g. Rumi, 
Ibn Arabi, Al Ghazali, etc.).

if we are looking for the 'true heart of sufism', then our
best bet may be to begin an assessment of this heart, what
it includes, and what characteristics may most likely be
associated with it regardless of any wrapper.

searching for the Prophet, it is seldom best to begin by 
determining what kind of person is NOT the Prophet, for 
this merely distracts us, getting us looking for darkness by 
searching for light.  instead identify what the Prophet is, 
what manner of being is this darkness, then select among what 
may be found in the environment which roughly conforms.  if 
nothing comes close we relocate our search elsewhere, keeping
ours eyes and ears open and our mind keen.

more importantly, long-term, is the attention to the self,
to our own maturity and how this may be effected.  even in
'imitation sufi' materials there are decent explanations of
how to go about coming to know oneself and beginning to 
work toward the descent into the Real.  combining this self-
investigation and transformation with our examination of the
possible 'real sufis', we prepare for the day that the Real
Guide arrives and we begin work in earnest.

may peace be with you,
-- (emailed replies may be posted); 408/2-666-SLUG       FUCK

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist:

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.


There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase


Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races