a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


Tantra, Sex Magick, Sacrifice and Kali

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.tantra,,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.magick
From: (nagasiva)
Subject: Tantra, Sex Magick, Sacrifice and Kali
Date: 5 Feb 1996 15:06:44 -0800

kaliyuga [originally sent via email to; cc'd to SRE]

Jai Kali! and I had the following exchange:
 (some of rose's text deleted though the bulk remains)

|Ardha-Nakshatra, 5097, KaliYuga

They are close enough that a syncretism is possible, yes.  Plus there is some
disputation as to the length and beginning of the kali yuga, so when I came
to realize the similarity it was to me a temporal fusion of identity and
a potential bridge between East and West (more below).

| > |out the '_Reta-Sakthi_,' and of course the 'variations' mentioned 

| > |about you? As a Kalidas  has _reta yajna_ been incorporated 
| > |into your own practices?
|All Sanskrit terms, actually. 

I thank you kindly for your generous explanation which I will of *course*
post to at least the Usenet forums alt.magick.tyagi and alt.magick.tantra 
as you have authorized, as well as my response.  I have deleted very little
of your text and will merely post both our text conjoined. You have asked
me if I was a Kalidas and whether I incorporate _reta yajna_ into my own
practices, both of which you describe eloquently below and make public:

|_Kalidas_ is the gender-neutral form of either _Kalidasa_  or 
|Kalidasi , the "Kali" in this case being Kali Ma in any/all of 
|Her 'forms.' _Das/a/i_ would be literally translated as "slave,"
|although modern translators seem to often play a bit loose, 
|translating as the less-loaded term "servant of" or even "devotee" 
|or "follower" of, to avoid the negative associations most of us would, 
|consciously or otherwise, slap onto the word "slave." 

By these terms I am a Kalidas as 'devotee' and perhaps 'servant', yes,
since I have dedicated my life to Kali, whom I approach via the 
(dangerous?  Ramakrishna seemed to indicate this) path of Lover.

|The type of Slavery implied is not a servile or forced condition
|at all, but one entered into willingly and with full *power*, a state of
|submission so intense that it leads not only to "freedom," but absolute
|identification--at least in theory.  ;>  

I do not currently identify often with Kali, no.  More often I identify
as Siva, whose being and essence I have only begun to understand.  First
I shall approach Kali as Lover, and as I become the Siva of the Nagas more
fully I feel I may take up a more diligent reflection of myself as Siva.  

Perhaps eventually I shall do as Ramakrishna suggests and destroy both 
in unity, but with my present state of consciousness this does not seem 
possible for one so lacking in diligence/rigor as myself.

|_Yajna_ means "worshipful ritual" or "sacrifice." While the _Veda Bramanas_ 
|and _Srauta Sastras_ had elaborate, detailed rules'n'regs about performing 
|_yajna_, in more modern times, it's come to mean *any* sort of ritual or 
|sacrifice performed by an individual without the aid of a _pujari_, or 
|Priest. Kinda like "gnostic puja."

Thank you.  I do not make regular puja of any type I am aware that
resembles what would be called by this term in Indian tradition.  I could
of course explain some of the practices I *do* engage as 'sacrifices'
(such as maintaining a vow (intent) of poverty (limited resources,
balancing these out in the dedication I feel)), but this word has
many meanings and how I live doesn't conform to some of these.

|Generally, four things are still "required" to make a "proper" yajna 
|if one wants to be traditional: 
|	_Dravya_, the "substance," that which is sacrificed;
|	_Tyaga_, the "sacrificial intent," the attitude of giving 
|	         something--or everything--to the yajna recipient; 
|	_Devata_, the divine recipient ItSelf; and 
|	_Mantra_, which is fairly self-explanatory.

Of these, in a very broad sense (I am not really 'orthodox' in any
way and so don't qualify otherwise), I think I do engage these things,
yes.  However, I don't do things like kill goats for Kali (though I
have considered comparable practice prior to meals as upaya or skilful
means in an awakening process which fits into my life), or burning
ghee (though I do burn incense and/or candles -- I am unsure of my
intent completely here however, since there are practical as well
as devotional results involved with each of these), or feeding Her
in ways I have read, which generates prasad (though I occasionally
place my food before Her altar as an offering -- I don't spoon it
into Her mouth or anything :>).

That said, I do maintain a temple for Kali out of devotion, have
constructed a few cyberspace things in honor of Her, and often
chant mantram when I feel it is right for me to do so.

The problem I have with your description is that I don't make hard
and fast distinctions, in my intentions, about whether Kali is
'outside me' (as a yajna) or a part or all of me (however you'd
like to categorize this).  There are often pragmatic reasons I
am inspired to engage these things as well as the occasional and
heart-felt enthusiasm which encourages me to do them purely for
NO reason or with dedicatory intent only.  That is, the expressions
of my devotion have beneficial results for me too.

You mention that 'something' or 'everything' might be sacrificed
or given in the _Tyaga_ above, and this is very important to me.
My intent is to honor Kali with great reverence and inspire, 
through my example (not active proselyzing) others to come to see
Her beauty if this is possible for them.  In this sense everything
I do is 'released' (something I find 'between' 'sacrifice' and
'giving') to the proper recipient.

I have difficulty with the typical religious attitudes about
ascetic rigor and 'sacrifice' or 'giving' in the sense of
disempowering myself in the activity.  This is perhaps my 
egotistical or self-preservative qualities outdistancing my
dedication, as I'm sure some would portray it.

And yet Kali shows me the value of egotism and what I have come
to know as 'the Law of Thelema' (expressed by many as 'Do what
thou wilt').  She does not encourage my dissolution (perhaps
because She knows of my resistance to such) except as part of
ritual and immersion in what I know as 'kirtan' (from my friends
who worship Krishna through celebration and ecstatic immersion).  

This latter (less ascetic and, short-term, less generous) immersion
leads to what I can only describe as bhaktik frenzy at times,
or ecstatic trance.  It is here where Kali and I become one,
though I have rarely been able to enter into this experience outside 
kirtan (singing, dancing, art etc. in devotion to Her).  

I am so new to the dedicatory practices that I am unsure of the 
cause-effect here.  Do my ritual methods inspire my ecstatic trance
and make possible my full-hearted devotional kirtan?  Or does the
kirtan trigger the trance?  I have come to few conclusions about
this or many other intellectual analyses, but would welcome
discussion about it as I feel it to be very important.
|_Reta Yajna_ is a ritual worship/sacrifice using _reta_ as the _dravya_. 
|The word _retas_ as used in the Rg-Veda has been translated as 
|"Divine Seed," or the "Semen of the Gods," so to speak. More properly, 
|_Reta_ is the *combination* of _rakta_, blood, specifically menstrual 
|blood, and _sukra_, or semen, as such. This combo theoretically elevates 
|normal human discharges into _Reta_, the "Divine Seed."

Very wonderful, and quite appropriate material for alt.magick.tantra.

|The actual rite can take any of several forms, from eucharistic, in 
|which the Reta becomes Prasad, that consumed after being offered 
|to/accepted by/blessed by the Devata of the ritual; to pure 'sacrificial 
|offering,' consumed by a homa fire, fer-instance; to use in further rituals 
|in the form of drawing yantras or performing _nyasa_ on the partner's 
|body before sexual ritual; to any number of specifically "occult" or 
|magical rituals for aims from completely worldly to completely 'spiritual' 
|to anything in between.

I have been exposed to such things in the past, and yet as I learn tantra
from Kali, I come to know it in less ceremonial or ritualistic terms.  Yes,
I do engage ritual and usually this is celebratory or dedicatory in nature
(not always).  However, when it comes to sexuality perhaps my history has
been what would be called more 'vanilla' in sadomasochistic circles. :>
I am exploring alternatives to this slowly while maintaining my focus.

Perpetually two things have struck me as 'difficult' about what is described
as 'ritualized sexuality' and 'ceremonial magick' within esoteric traditions.

In the first, I have favored the connection with the individual(s)
with whom I was being intimate, and so preferred to reject 'goals' in the
sexual interaction in favor of none at all, moving to the dance of our
sincerety and mutual pleasuring and occasionally entering into trance-
states or 'nonordinary states of consciousness' (even for sex) due to the
way in which we merged and dallied.  The notion of 'using this energy'
has always struck me as repulsive, though I think I am beginning to see
the value of sex magick as practiced by others and have been lovers with
others who wished to engage these types of rites with me (still do :>).

Maybe I'm just a kind of battery or surrogate or something for sex 
magicians. :>  Yet I feel that I engage a very important intimatic
process or 'rite' when encountering my lovers, especially those with
whom I have shared a great deal of time and to whom I have dedicated
a great deal of my energies (thus strict physical sexuality is only
one part of the dance, and my 'tantra' is much larger than intercourse).

As far as ceremonial magick is concerned I am typically resistant to
pre-formulated ceremony, associating ritual with a state of mind that
I may induce in myself in response to *changing*, *living* circumstances
which appear to fluctuate enough to preclude formatted recipe results.

It may well be that I am simply too eclectic and lacking in discipline 
or interest to achieve this 'ritual' through ceremony (as I have seldom 
found the experiments I have engaged to lead to this state of mind as
compared to my other, more devotional or ecstatic and unplanned acts),
though I have taken exploratory steps in this regard and met resistance
or seen omens which turned me back.

|If you wouldn't mind answering a couple ?'s 

It is part of my discipline to respond to sincere responses in as
honest and reasonable a manner as I am able to muster, in part as
a service to others and in part as a practice of self-reflection.

I'll let you know if I have difficulty with your queries or approach.
I find you to be an exceptionally respectful, helpful and knowledgeable
individual and will likely provide you with more reflection than you 
might wish to know. :>

|...what does the "49" in your dating system signify? 

You surmised correctly that it was the addition of 3000 years to the
current Gregorian calendric system, and I was inspired to adopt this
temporal orientation by my Abyss and by Kali (me?  Her?  you tell 
me! ;>) after learning something of the (many?) Indian yuga-system(s).

|I know you've mentioned publicly being devoted to Kali Ma, so 
|considered you a possible/probable Kalidas, especially given my 
|translation of the name "Tyagi."

|...why did you choose "Tyagi," which I translate as "One who sacrifices, 
|or has sacrificed," as yer handle?

I gather there are entire traditions of tyagis (some even local to me, 
though I have yet to visit with them at Mt. Madonna, CA, US), and I was 
not previously aware of them at all, being predisposed to intuitively 
dancing in ways meaningful to me.

This amounted to long personal journey (which you may find at:

and my selection of 'tyagi' was a purely intuitive move inspired by
my blossoming dedication to Kali as I knew Her and to the esoteric
teachings of the East as I find extremely compelling.  I found the
name/title in Christopher Isherwood's _Ramakrishna and His Disciples_
while contemplating the saint and his exploits/life/dedication as
part of my own (Isherwood rendered it 'tagi' and I have since taken
several permutations, arriving at 'tyagi' after consulting with
scholars on proper Sankrit transliteration.  

I did not know of the term's meaning then beyond what Isherwood
rendered ("one who has renounced everything for God"), interpreting
this in a particular way (equating 'renouncement' with 'release' in
a type of buddhist 'letting go' or equilibriated detachment), yet
having no idea of the Indian tradition(s?) which may lie behind it.

|Love is the law, love under will.

Very interesting, this 'tantric-thelemic' polarity or energy current,
is it not?  I find those who stand betwixt or amongst these often to 
be quite similar of temperament and interest once I get to know them.  

I would love to hear more about your own pathway and how you have
found the combination of these traditions (or intersection?  unity?)
to be helpful to you or of hindrance.  Are there specific teachers
you favor offline, in books or in cyberspace?  Are you as wildly
eclectic as myself (enjoying studies in zen, tantra, sufism and
other esoterics)?  Your name sounds familiar.  Have we exchanged
words in cyberspace previously?  Do you find experimental, exploratory
and self-transformational practices to be your ilk?

Aum krim namah kaliya.

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist:

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.


There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase


Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races