THE
ARCANE
ARCHIVE

a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects.


TOP | RELIGION | HINDUISM | YOGA | TANTRA | NEO TANTRA

vajroli

Path: ultra.sonic.net!not-for-mail
From: catherine yronwode 
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tantra
Subject: Re: vajroli
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1998 11:43:12 -0800
Organization: Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Lines: 120
Message-ID: <368147D4.5044@luckymojo.com>
References: 
NNTP-Posting-Host: d97.pm10.sonic.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K)
Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.magick.tantra:7423

rishikesh40 wrote:
> 
> i wanted help on the proper technique
> of practice of VAJROLI .
> it is  also done by insertion of a
> catheter in the penile urethra and
> then practising the mula bandha
> i want to know how exactly to practise this technique
> because i feel it is slightly risky.
> any help would be gratefully accepted.
> with love
> rishikesh

I am posting the following for an a.m..t. reader who prefers to remain
anonymous. The opinions are his. I will append mine (with his
pertmission) between and among his comments: 

> Vajroli is an esoteric practice that perhaps make sense within the 
> culture where it started. von Lysebeth 

in "Tantra: the Cult of the Feminine" -- a highly recommended text

> included a whole chapter in his book, which seems to give it an 
> unwarranted significance in a book directed at
> westerners.   

Mantak Chia also mentions it in his books for westerners, hence it has
come to be expected fare, albeit not mainstream, in books describing
western sex-magical and sexo-spiritual practices. 

> The following comments are intended for the context of
> western culture, leaving for the more knowledgeable to comment on the
> native contexts of vajroli. Western culture certainly includes anybody
> asking medical or sexual questions on USENET, regardless of nominal
> ethnicity! I would think the proper answer to questions about vajroli
> and related techniques is: ask the local guru knowledgeable about such 
> matters. If you don't know who that is, you're not in the appropriate 
> culture.

:-)
 
> For westerners, vajroli and certain other esoteric yogic practices
> might well be considered to be a perversion just as much as the more
> extreme "mortification of the flesh" practices of some legendary 
> Christian hermits. 

My theory exactly! 

> The essence of the perversion is that while nominally 
> undertaken to glorify God or tantric principles they in practice 
> actually redirect the attention back to the hermit practitioner in an 
> act of anti-humility. 

This is what i call "sexual gymnastics," and i agree, it is similar in
intent, if not in appearance, to the self-mutilation and extreme
renunciations of not only Christians but holy fanatics of various
religions. 

Vajroli has never been a mainstream part of Indian tantra, but Indian
culture accepts such ascetic behavioural extremes as "holy" to this day,
while Euro-American cultural norms decreed some time in the 19th century
that such behavoiurs were "pathological." The Catholic Church is left
with a few embarrssing saints (such as The Alaqoque, who drank urine
from sick people and rubbed her body with the scabs and sores of
lepers), but these days, even cases of bleeding stigmata are given short
shrift. In India, however, such extremes of behaviour are less harshly
judged. 

> An important principle of spiritual sex is
> to direct attention from the man's experience toward the woman's, both 
> to undo undue cultural conditioning and because a spiritual experience 
> seems to be more readily accessible to the untrained woman, and 
> therefore she typically leads the way for the untrained man.   
>
> The woman's subjective experience is not
> the ultimate goal, but a waypoint to fix upon, toward the goal of 
> losing the individual boundaries of the man and woman, merging with 
> each other and then with the universal cosmic rhythm. It appears that 
> ordinary means of breath and muscle control and verbal communication 
> are more than adequate for most couples to control the orgasmic reflex 
> when desired and proceed to higher states. 

I think this is true not only in western adaptations of tantra yoga, but
in eastern, indigenous forms as well. 

> For westerners to go farther than that, in the direction of esoteric 
> practices like vajroli, seems idolatrous - confusing the means with 
> the end and actually redirecting attention back to the man's wonderful 
> endowments and accomplishments.     

Hindu culture is generrally disrespectful to women. Tantra yoga contains
remnant elements of Sakti (female goddess) worship, but it has been
compromised by centuries of adaptation to male-centered "Aryan" sky-god
religions which focus on the primacy of ther male. Similarly, Chinese
Taoist sex alchem tends to focus on the man's "wonderful endowments and
accomplishments" -- a state of mind not unexpected in ancient China,
whgerew women were not treated with political equality. 

> Maybe it's a common complaint in certain parts of
> India, but I've never read anything from a western woman to the effect
> that a certain man would be an excellent spiritual partner if he just 
> would fully embrace the vajroli practice for her benefit. 

LOL!!!

> Premature ejaculation can be an impediment but it seems in most cases 
> to be amenable to ordinary disciplines when both partners sincerely 
> want better control.

Well said, Mr. Anonymous. 

catherine yronwode

Lucky Mojo Curio Co: http://www.luckymojo.com/luckymojocatalogue.html
The Lucky W Amulet Archive: http://www.luckymojo.com/luckyw.html  
Sacred Sex: http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredsex.html
The Sacred Landscape: http://www.luckymojo.com/sacredland.html
Freemasonry for Women: http://www.luckymojo.com/comasonry.html 
Comics Warehouse: http://www.luckymojo.com/comicswarehouse.html 
check out news:alt.lucky.w for discussions on folk magic and luck

The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist: tyaginator@arcane-archive.org.

Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small
donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site.

The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories,
each dealing with a different branch of
religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge.
Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit:
interdisciplinary: geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness
occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells
religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo
societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc.

SEARCH THE ARCANE ARCHIVE

There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):

Search For:
Match:  Any word All words Exact phrase

OTHER ESOTERIC AND OCCULT SITES OF INTEREST

Southern Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo, including slave narratives & interviews
Hoodoo in Theory and Practice by cat yronwode: an introduction to African-American rootwork
Lucky W Amulet Archive by cat yronwode: an online museum of worldwide talismans and charms
Sacred Sex: essays and articles on tantra yoga, neo-tantra, karezza, sex magic, and sex worship
Sacred Landscape: essays and articles on archaeoastronomy, sacred architecture, and sacred geometry
Lucky Mojo Forum: practitioners answer queries on conjure; sponsored by the Lucky Mojo Curio Co.
Herb Magic: illustrated descriptions of magic herbs with free spells, recipes, and an ordering option
Association of Independent Readers and Rootworkers: ethical diviners and hoodoo spell-casters
Freemasonry for Women by cat yronwode: a history of mixed-gender Freemasonic lodges
Missionary Independent Spiritual Church: spirit-led, inter-faith, the Smallest Church in the World
Satan Service Org: an archive presenting the theory, practice, and history of Satanism and Satanists
Gospel of Satan: the story of Jesus and the angels, from the perspective of the God of this World
Lucky Mojo Usenet FAQ Archive: FAQs and REFs for occult and magical usenet newsgroups
Candles and Curios: essays and articles on traditional African American conjure and folk magic
Aleister Crowley Text Archive: a multitude of texts by an early 20th century ceremonial occultist
Spiritual Spells: lessons in folk magic and spell casting from an eclectic Wiccan perspective
The Mystic Tea Room: divination by reading tea-leaves, with a museum of antique fortune telling cups
Yronwode Institution for the Preservation and Popularization of Indigenous Ethnomagicology
Yronwode Home: personal pages of catherine yronwode and nagasiva yronwode, magical archivists
Lucky Mojo Magic Spells Archives: love spells, money spells, luck spells, protection spells, etc.
      Free Love Spell Archive: love spells, attraction spells, sex magick, romance spells, and lust spells
      Free Money Spell Archive: money spells, prosperity spells, and wealth spells for job and business
      Free Protection Spell Archive: protection spells against witchcraft, jinxes, hexes, and the evil eye
      Free Gambling Luck Spell Archive: lucky gambling spells for the lottery, casinos, and races