THE |
|
a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
to occult, mystical, and spiritual subjects. |
Path: ultra.sonic.net!news From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.sexuality,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,alt.magick.tantra Subject: Tantra Yoga and Neotantra (a comparison) (was Peace and Tantra) Date: 22 Mar 1999 13:01:36 -0800 Organization: Sonoma Interconnect,Santa Rosa,CA(us),http://www.sonic.net Lines: 280 Message-ID: <7d6b3g$h9s@bolt.sonic.net> References: <19990322030522.22959.00000403@ng-fu1.aol.com> <7d5ikq$cpu$1@nnrp9.crl.com> Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com NNTP-Posting-Host: bolt.sonic.net X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.1 (NOV) Xref: ultra.sonic.net alt.magick.tyagi:16420 alt.religion.sexuality:33344 talk.religion.misc:281677 talk.religion.newage:98273 alt.magick.tantra:8592 49990322 IIIom om krim namah kali Holson1000: #> Can Tantric sex be used to produce peace? "Kavi/Tzimon Yliaster": # "Tantric sex" is one of five sacraments used in pancamakara, # and also in some other lesser rites (always in combination # with other practices, such as homa, mantra, dharana, etc.). # Without these other elements, sex isn't Tantric sex. this is the orthodoxy of Tantra Yoga, and I wish it well, but I would like to contrast neotantra with it briefly here of the style of various New Age and Hermetic weirdos. where in orthodox Tantra Yoga there is much emphasis on form and definition, neotantra does not describe the form in which 'tantric sex' must occur. instead the FEELING and the RESULTS are more integral to the ascription of 'tantric'. there is much more of a 'chaotic' or individually-driven emphasis to neotantra than to the sometimes stodgy and tradition-bound original. neotantra operates on more broad-minded and revolutionary principles than conventional 'Left-Handed Tantra' (in a classic Indian rather than Hermetic sense, typically actually including sexuality rather than the erotic imaginings of its alternative) or 'Right-Handed Tantra' (the conservative and orthodox Tantra Yoga establishment which eschews physicality). these latter two are typically described as taking place within a very structured and restricted rite that Kavi (Tzimon Yliaster) has correctly described as 'pancamakara', sometimes translated as the "(rite of) the five 'm's", whereas neotantra pays a greater degree of attention to the dynamics of the individuals involved and how the participants perceive and interact with each other. # ...I'll frame my response in terms of this, and shift the # question a little bit. Thus, can the practice of Tantra # produce peace? this is the typical Tantra Yoga response: shift the discussion away from sexuality per se in favor of ambiguous mystical practices which can (often) only be instructed by gurus of the recommended traditions. neotantra has 'instructors', but it has admirably avoided the problems (and advantages) of the 'guru-chela relationship', and it tends to acknowledge that SEXUALITY, which is often claimed even by Indian tantrics to be the 'most fruitful arena or tool for liberation', is the central element of importance in neotantric activities. that the orthodox choose to dissuade people from associating tantra with sex demonstrates important distinctions between New Age and Hermetic novelties on the one hand and older Indian originals on the other. # ...yes. Over time, the practice of Tantra will lead to peace # for the individual who practices it. Theoretically, if # everyone practiced it, it would probably produce peace on # a large scale, as many individuals themselves found peace. # This is, of course, a theoretical situation. In reality, # very few people practice Tantra. here is another element of division between neotantra and conventional Tantra Yoga. Tantra Yoga is a skillset of disciplines and practices which are engaged by the elite under the direction of the 'experts'. this skillset is described as 'practised by very few people', and there is sufficient diversity of opinion as to make possible the obscuration of pointers to essential elements beyond a few dogmas. neotantrists, on the other hand, often state that tantric practices are engaged ALL THE TIME by ordinary human beings, but usually without the needed emphasis or proper attention to yield their liberating qualities. the techniques for the tantric experience are easily available for anyone who wants to learn them, and many do indeed try them out a little, but few persist in them sufficiently so as to come to experience the full extent of their power or apply them in many areas of life, extending their understanding of what 'sexuality' and 'practice' can include to their outermost limits. # ...the first stage of Tantric practice (called "pashu") # is most often marked by conflict and struggle. All # conflict is bondage, and the word "pashu" itself means # "bound" (literally, a "pashu" is a domesticated, or bound, # animal... from the same root as "pasha", which means a # noose or tie of some sort.).... vira.... divya.... Tantra Yoga appears to rest upon a cosmological system of linear progress, taxonomized in a biased and anthropocentric way. this system of assessment is sometimes used to roughly and crudely marginalize perceived competitors (e.g. "he appears to be in the Dog stage") and engage self-justification. the simplicity of the assessment-system is overlooked for its merit-badge and 'spiritual advancement' qualities. neotantra sometimes becomes infested with this mentality on account of its penchance for using as much of the raw material as it can find valuable from traditional sources to achieve its ends. if a model is helpful, then it is used, and otherwise discarded (much like in Chaos Magick and the wider magical traditions out of which it has grown). however, one of the downsides of this once-valuable model of spiritual development is that seldom are the debilities of those who masquerade as the supposed goalstates described in any detail. for example, some will identify with the 'heroic' or 'divine' (pasu, divya respectively) conditions because it satisfies their yearning for points, achievement, conquering, authority, and many other dominating, hierarchic states of consciousness. at their best, neotantrists understand that the three classes which Kavi/Tzimon describes as a system of attainment are better understood as three conditions of maturity which would benefit from differing styles of discipline or activity. just as people learn differently, so also do we find connection and need to be addressed differently if we are to blossom as individuals. more often, however, these are left behind as a useless classification scheme that has too much room for abuse. instead a variable range is ascribed to each individual as to their capacity of 'heart-centered devotional loving', and we are all students together assisting one another without strict identification schemes of attainment. # Finally, when all of the conflicts have been overcome, # the third stage is reached. In the divya stage, there is # no longer an "I and other" relationship to the external world. # All apparent opposites and differences have been overcome. # Peace is achieved through the realization of fundamental unity. # To the divya, all things are the same. This is a state # called "jivanmukti", which means "liberation within life". # Peace comes as a result of there no longer being any opposition. this is another fundamental distinction between Tantra Yoga, which typically extends outside the conventional bhakti or devotion-related paths, and neotantrics. apologists for the former typically describe the path in terms of adventure, heroism, overcoming obstacles, and the elimination of the opposition as in a war. neotantrists will usually avoid such ascetic and oppressive language in favor of connecting, compassionate, and joyful terminology (sometimes to the extreme of 'white lightedness' in New Age circles) that seeks not resolved undifferentiation (the goal of many ascetics) but instead a flowing dance of dynamic embrace and of fluid movement where identity varies considerably from specific bodies to complete diffusion. a more important difference, however, is that neotantrists tend to steer clear of the exalted goalstates described by countless Tantra Yogis -- 'states of jivanmukti', 'moksa', etc., though this is certainly not always the case. the emphasis is instead upon learning to be satisfied for a moment and then for longer and longer. this could easily be considered a kind of gentle movement toward personal liberation, but without ignoring all the steps between how most of us experience life and any potential exaltation. instead the concentration is on improvement and the path, rather than on possibly unreachable or fictitious fancies. 'finding peace' is a very good example of this. in Tantra Yoga as Kavi/Tzimon describes it true and lasting peace in a 'Tantric' framework is only achieved at the end of a complicated journey involving complex relationships, potential conversion to alien cosmological paradigms, and faith in a number of metaphysical premises that are disputable by the rational investigator. to the neotantric the mindset is unimportant. you can keep your worldview intact if you like and develop something that conforms to your standards while you learn real, physical and psychological techniques that will help you to form a deeper, more satisfying relationship with the world and with those who are important to you (inclusive of yourself). if you want to try to do something else beyond this, all the better! # The dedication required to reach the divya stage is # very great, and only a few people make it according to # what I've studied and heard (I've obviously not reached # this stage myself, nor, I would hazard a guess, has anyone # else who is reading this right now). For the overwhelming # majority of those who are currently practicing Tantra, # and who have practiced it in the past, and who will practice # it in the future, there is an increased peace... but not # total peace. again, especially among apologists (I have rarely heard from active yogis in the field), the Tantra Yoga process is an extremely difficult and rare one to engage. the vagueries described and the mysterious beatitudes lauded are usually beyond the experience of even those who presume to point to them or hint at what they mean. if we are skeptical we will begin to wonder whether ANYONE has achieved them and how such an assessment could be reliably made. neotantrists, on the other hand, tend more often to shy away from assessing ANYONE's 'spiritual state', being content to engage their own process and understanding that there are simply too many differences between people and possible goalstates people may choose to set up such a rigidity. instead, descriptions tend to be more reserved and humble, down to earth and gentle in their content (e.g. 'increased sensitivity', 'greater degree of self-awareness and an enhanced erotic appreciation'). # It should be remembered that the practice of Tantra itself # arose with the advent of our current age, the Kaliyuga. # Kaliyuga is the age of conflict, in which peace is hard-won. while I find it important to use the temporal scale of my own interpretation of the Kali yuga (this being year 4999), I recognize that neither does everyone believe in such a paradigm nor should they, seeing that it is quite possibly a valuable metaphor rather than anything ontological. it may be valuable for devotees of Kali such as myself to find value in Last Epoch cosmological schemes, but the martial flavor of the 4,320,000 year yuga cycle (the Kali or 'Black' Age being the most recent and of only 432,000 year duration) falls flat when we are told that 'different yugas make different activities more spiritually fruitful than others, and that the Kali yuga emphasizes the material and crude activities such as sexuality and aesthetic indulgence as liberative in quality'. somehow it becomes clear why neotantrics place a greater emphasis on love and connection, enjoyment and indulgence than the typical apologists for Tantra Yoga who characterize it in terms of 'overcoming the base appetites' and 'winning conflicts'. # It is said by the Tantras themselves that they have arisen # as a "Veda for the Kaliyuga"... a means by which all people # can achieve wisdom in an age of conflict. I suppose that this is one of the more important elements of difference between neotantra and Tantra Yoga -- that the latter appears to derive its authority from sacred scraps of paper written by men taking on the authority of gods. neotantrics by and large avoid or play down the role of deities in their practices, and this is probably because most are not really spiritually benefitted by engaging them. in the West a 'god' is typically described in dismissive terms and doing things like fucking with or identifying with "*the* God" is just downright blasphemous. it is small wonder that in Western culture deity-work is overlooked, avoided, or reserved for the adventurous or religiously open-minded. instead of 'Tantras' within the neotantra community there are real books by real authors (many women!) who are often still alive. some neotantrics place their material online for the benefit of all. many seem to like to combine business with pleasure and make a living off instruction within the seminar and lecture circuit. those whose texts become popular are sought out and in some cases critically reviewed. no single body is cemented into authority, regarded as ultimate in its content, or (usually) presumed to derive from specific deities. as a whole neotantra seems to be simultaneously bereft of the benefits and problems of antiquity. its syncretic and eclectic style, emphasis on simple pleasures and the benefits of eroticism are a pleasant change of pace from the usual ascetic and elitist religiomystical achievement- schemes. on the other hand, its lack of any kind of pyramidal authority structure makes possible the usual fakery and charlatanry that accompanies any new or diverse system of knowledge and skill. blessed beast and nama kali! nagasiva -- emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired
The Arcane Archive is copyright by the authors cited.
Send comments to the Arcane Archivist: tyaginator@arcane-archive.org. |
Did you like what you read here? Find it useful?
Then please click on the Paypal Secure Server logo and make a small donation to the site maintainer for the creation and upkeep of this site. |
The ARCANE ARCHIVE is a large domain,
organized into a number of sub-directories, each dealing with a different branch of religion, mysticism, occultism, or esoteric knowledge. Here are the major ARCANE ARCHIVE directories you can visit: |
|
interdisciplinary:
geometry, natural proportion, ratio, archaeoastronomy
mysticism: enlightenment, self-realization, trance, meditation, consciousness occultism: divination, hermeticism, amulets, sigils, magick, witchcraft, spells religion: buddhism, christianity, hinduism, islam, judaism, taoism, wicca, voodoo societies and fraternal orders: freemasonry, golden dawn, rosicrucians, etc. |
SEARCH THE ARCANE ARCHIVE
There are thousands of web pages at the ARCANE ARCHIVE. You can use ATOMZ.COM
to search for a single word (like witchcraft, hoodoo, pagan, or magic) or an
exact phrase (like Kwan Yin, golden ratio, or book of shadows):
OTHER ESOTERIC AND OCCULT SITES OF INTEREST
Southern
Spirits: 19th and 20th century accounts of hoodoo,
including slave narratives & interviews
|