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Path: Supernews69!kudonet.com!not-for-mail From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) Newsgroups: alt.magick,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.sex,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.magick.tantra Subject: Tantra East and West Date: 9 Jul 1997 14:42:58 -0700 Organization: KudoNet On-Line Services Lines: 65 Sender: tyagi@bjt.net Message-ID: <5q10l2$3ie@kudo20.kudonet.com> References: <33C2B483.4E6F@luckymojo.com> <5puhq9$sj8$1@newsd-111.bryant.webtv.net> Reply-To: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva) NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.227.52.9 X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Xref: Supernews69 alt.magick:106947 alt.magick.tyagi:13512 alt.magick.sex:28413 alt.religion.sexuality:22080 alt.magick.tantra:4356 49970709 aa2 Hail Satan! om krim nama kaliya as always, I make no claims toward traditional associations, being eclectic and iconoclastic in nature. take what I say as that which I have learned from reading about the tantra of others, from my own experience and from studies with an entity I know as 'Kali'. JACKKETCH@webtv.net (JACK KETCH): # The Life Force is contained within Sexual fluids, and anyone that # disagrees doesn't know what they're talking about! literally this appears to be only partially true. since living beings are often said, within this model to be 'enthused by the life force', the sex fluids are only concentrations of this supposed force. those who disagree may do so on the grounds that no evidence for this 'force' has ever been found. # ...The whole purpose of Magick is to attract/direct Energy. I am into # Tantra from the Occident, not the self denial from the East. actually it is the *activity* of magick which includes involvement with 'energy' as such, as do modern Neopagans, new agers and psychics. strictly speaking, it need not at all be involved with magical rites in the slightest, which need only include symbolic ritual and tools. 'Tantra from the Occident' is typically shallow and sex-related, as is what you are apparently describing. usually it is the activity of those who are quite obsessed with sexuality and who are attempting to use that obsession to liberate ourselves from our feelings of powerlessness. the East, that often being 'Tantra Yoga', does often include discipline and therefore self-restriction. 'self-denial' is perhaps an exaggeration here. in Right-hand Tantra symbolic elements substitute for what is in Left-hand or Vamamarg Tantra a literalism. there are differing opinions as to what benefits and skills are associated with each of them. in the Vamamarg it is more difficult to render a charge of 'self-denial', even while discipline is a central element (as is it fused with indulgence). # I don't know about you, but I like to give and receive Pleasure! this appears to be fairly universal, but not necessarily the only element of tantra by my standards. # Anyone that denies that Sex is a Ritual doesn't know what Sex is! there are a variety of meanings for the term 'sex' for which 'ritual' would not apply. your claim is rather ambiguous, but it implies the Sacred Marriage or Hieros Gamos known to many tantrics and alchemists. # Who all agrees? I think you have said very little, but am willing to hear more. namaste tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com nagasiva
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