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Path: ultra.sonic.net!news
From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (nagasiva)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.magick.sex,alt.sex.wizards,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,alt.magick.tantra
Subject: Tantra and Orgasm (was Religion, Sex and Magick ...)
Date: 4 Jun 1999 11:54:59 -0700
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49990604 IIIom

uncited:
#>#>#> I was wondering if any of you have had experience with introducing
#>#>#> the concept of Sacred Sexuality or Tantra to male partners? I am
#>#>#> finding a wall that I don't quite understand. I mean, most men say
#>#>#> that they want good sex then when presented with a method, they
#>#>#> close down.

"Melodie Baker" :
# When my husband and I first got married, I bought a book on the 
# tantra and sat down and read it, and like you said, when I sat 
# down and talked to him about it, he completely shut down and 
# refused to talk about it.

how did you approach him? what was it, exactly, he was refusing
to talk about?

# A large part of it, as he said, was that the focus in tantra is 
# on the act of sex, not the conclusion of sex, and he had gotten 
# the impression that it was forbidden for the man to have an 
# orgasm.  (And I can certainly understand his concern over this 
# point -- why would anyone be interested if they weren't allowed 
# to have any fun?)

as if sexuality other than orgasm isn't fun? I think there
is a great deal of emphasis on orgasm, to the detriment of the
connection between lovers.

# Interestingly enough, a few years later, HE was the one who 
# brought it up.  I was working at an extremely stressful job, 
# and I was on Depoprovera at the time, so basically, I had no 
# sexdrive at all.  He would approach me and I would fall 
# asleep, often at rather embarassing moments.  We both have 
# made an effort to change that.

that sounds like a very healthy response to the situation. you
identified the problems as a couple and took action to solve
them. this is the kind of combined dedication which is likely
to result in a true melding.

# I think a large part of the problem is that there is a big 
# difference in male and female make-ups.  Females just tend 
# to take more time to get that part of our brain turned on.  
# Males can be thinking about one thing one minute and that 
# the next with no real need for a change of scenery.  I would
# try to get affectionate, and he would be busy concentrating 
# on something else, then when he got affectionate, I was 
# unconscious.  There's an awful lot of adjusting that has to 
# be done to understand each other.

not only that, sometimes it takes identifying the proper times
of the DAY when such interactions can occur. if this is during
a time when the world has asked us to be busy, we may just have
to tell the world to shove off if we want to keep the connection
and take advantage of our biological cycles.

# We both tend to be very busy, so we just don't have time to 
# spend the whole day gazing raptly into each others' eyes as 
# we did when we were dating in college.  We both tend to be 
# rather "cut to the chase" these days.  

a great deal of emphasis is placed on sexuality in tantric
relationships, and while these can indeed be very important aspects
of the interaction, I have found it best to expand the meaning
of 'sexuality' to encompass every aspect of experience and
exchange, peering into everyday experiences and see how they are
sexual. 

seeing the world in a sexualized way, we begin to understand
that, separated and busy away from one another, numerous 'worldly
affairs' are interfering in the rich potential we have to be
completely enmeshed with one another. the hum of an orgasmic thrill
during a morning's gardening together or while driving together to 
the market is a key to the depth of intimacy and strength of the 
bond. coming back into one another's arms after the brief absence
of one of us getting the mail, we experience a climax of enthusiasm 
and joy. attention to detail and dedication to an adoration of 
one's lover(s) is an important part of the discipline and reward 
for being in a special tryst.

spending a lot (:*) of time gazing raptly into one another's eyes 
is a very important occasional experience. making time for 
it is essential, I think, to the nurturance of a lasting
and close union. 

I would ask you what 'the chase' truly is. is it the minor and
fleeting shudder of orgasm or is it the intense rapture of delight
which can occur during or ASIDE from that physical experience?
I suspect that, neglecting the interaction for the 'chase', we
are more liable to lapse into a routinized and scripted role,
abandoning tantra for convenience.

# But if you have a partner who is reluctant, show him what 
# he's missing.  (And by that, I don't mean become celibate, 
# I mean, show him what the real benefits to him will be of 
# taking this new approach.  Show him that it doesn't have to 
# be a sacrifice with no chance of gratification.  Show him
# what you know -- that this can be a great new opportunity 
# for the both of you.  I doubt that he'll be reluctant for long.)

'this new approach' is often reliquated to the status of a novel
sexual attitude when it can be so much more life-encompassing
than this. intelligent hedonism is wonderful, yet without 
attention it can quickly become recreation without intimacy. it 
may be that some who resist engaging in 'tantric sex' are opting 
for a greater range of human interaction which features tantric
values and insights. this becomes meaningless when 'tantra' is
understood to simply mean 'less orgasm-centered'.

blessed beast!
nagasiva@luckymojo.com  
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