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From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (mordred)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi
Subject: Re: pedantic query - Karezza etc
Date: 11 Mar 1995 00:40:38 -0800
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[from alt.magick.sex: rjb@u.washington.edu (LeGrand Cinq-Mars)]

In article <3ioigk$d09@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
Cyronwode  wrote:
>tyagi -- 
>
>karezza is just Italian for "carress." Not sanskrit. 

*My* bible (OED II) provides

karezza (k&schwa.'rets&schwa.). Also carezza. [Ital. carezza caress.] Sexual
union in which ejaculation or complete orgasm is avoided (see quot. 
1896); =
coitus reservatus.
  1896 A. B. STOCKHAM Karezza ii. 22 Karezza consummates marriage in such a
manner that through the power of will, and loving thoughts, the final crisis
is not reached, but a complete control by both husband and wife is 
maintained
throughout the entire relation. 1953 [see coitus reservatus s.v. COITUS c].
1956 A. HUXLEY Adonis & Alphabet 276 He advocated Male Continence and 
what Dr
Stockham was later to call Karezza. 1970 W. W. ROBSON Mod. Eng. Lit. v. 105
Late in his life..he [sc. Aldous Huxley] speculated optimistically on the
benefits of a technique of sexual intercourse known as carezza. 1970 B. 
WALKER
Sex & Supernatural ix. 83 In time `karezza' was believed to bestow
extraordinary..blessings.



> >legrand 
-- > >last night i wrote a lengthy reply to you and AOL ate it (but birped
>politely, "posting has been disabled. please try later") and i don't have
>the heart to get into this too much again

...

Sorry I missed it.
But thanks for the condensed version:  it was very helpful.


. . .
>
>Another local story about Harris concerns a woman who wanted to be a
>reporter for Hearst's paper in the City. He told her that women couldn't
>be good reporters because they couldn't dig up dirt or put themselves on
>the line to get a story, so she and her aunt took off for Santa Rosa to
>stay at Fountaingrove and discover its secrets. They were received very
>politely, were fed, listened to some spiritual lectures, and were given
>separate rooms to stay in on the second floor. They had just undressed
>when...(scary pause)...they heard the stairs creak! It was (gasp) the men
>(!) walking up to the women's quarters and entering the rooms of the
>visiting widows with whom they had made assignations. She supposedly wrote
>this up, Hearst published it, and she got a staff job as a reporter. THIS
>STORY MAY WELL BE A LOCAL FABRICATION -- i have never heard the name of
>the reporter mentioned. I have long "meant to" look it up, but that kind
>of research is daunting from a cold trail...years and years of newsapers
>to leaf through, with no idea as to whether it is a phoney yarn in the
>first place.
>

This news story, and the story that goes with it, is printed as one
of the appendices in 

 Schneider, Herbert Wallace, 1892-.
 A prophet and a pilgrim, being the incredible history of Thomas
 Lake Harris and Laurence Oliphant; their sexual mysticisms and
 Utopian communities. Amply documented to confound the skeptic,
 by Herbert W. Schneider and George Lawton.
 New York, Columbia university press, 1942.
 xviii, 589 p. ports. 24 cm.
 Columbia studies in American culture , no. 11. Bibliography: p.
 [559]-566.
 Harris-Thomas-Lake-1823-1906.
 Oliphant-Laurence-1829-1888.
 Lawton, George, 1900-1957.

This is in print --
 Schneider, Herbert.  Lawton, George
 Prophet & a Pilgrim
 Repr. of 1942 ed.
 AMS Pr
 Trade $36.50
 Active entry
 0404056105

Though AMS has an odd reputation it seems among bookstores.


>Harris supposedly (again this is a local story) had a thing for an
>extra-dimensional aethyric woman he called his "queen" -- a sort of deva
>or fairy-woman, the tale goes. He wrote her spiritual poetry and he
>claimed that she had borne him two children (or was it three?) in her
>otherworldly land.

The Lily Queen (I reviewed Scneider & Lawrence last night).  Actually,
Harris was something more of a tyrant than I remembered -- the book is
very detailed, and rather convincing (and rather gtimly entertaining).

I was a bit off about the counterparts -- they first manifested in the
devotee's own body.  Whether or not a counterpart ever manifested in
another's body is harder to say, thgh the Oliphants seemed to think
so; Harris seems to to have approved - or not to have approved the
public mention of the possibility.  Whe Harris hit California he
seems to have left behind some of his earlier rigor, but S& L
were unable to come up with clear evidence of anything like much sexual
activity.  There were people who felt that Harris had made "improper
advances", as they phrased it, to their young daughters.

Despite intense documentary research and interviewing of surviving
members of the communities, S&L never could get a clear puicture of what
secret activities may have existed in the innermost sanctuary.

I'm still waiting to read Stockham.  Looking forwrd to it.

LeGrand