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To: thelema93-l@hollyfeld.org (Thelema93-Listserv)
From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nigris (333))
Subject: Re: OTO Supreme Secret (IX')
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 1996 14:26:20 -0800 (PST)

49961214 AA1  The Revolution Continues!!

E6


xiwangmu:
#>apparently the 'Supreme Secret
#>of the OTO' is 'sacred sex within ritual circumstances' and, likely,
#>possibly coincident with bodily energetic disciplines along the lines of
#>kundalini yoga.
#>
#>this rite is supposed to fabricate the Elixir of Life, contained within
#>the comingled sexual effluvia of the participant male and female, then
#>to be sucked and absorbed through a bodily membrane (some say the roof
#>of the mouth, others say the genitals themselves [do] an adequate job,
#>still others apparently think that the tongue is sufficient) as a kind
#>of tantric eucharist ("IX'").

#>whether any of the 'energy' actually transfers or such an 'elixir' is
#>created I leave for the experimentation of the reader.

Leroy Lauer :
#...Where does the Belief that there is anything such as an "Elixir of
#Life" come from?

I presume that this is the alchemic 'Elixir of Eternal Life/Immortality'
and has been promoted by Rosicrucians and various other Western
esotericists for centuries, by taoists for centuries before them (cf
Chang Tao Ling or my namesake Xiwangmu and the religion of taoism;
Michel Strickmann is a good source, as in some measure is Blofeld).

it is also called the 'Universal Medicine' and is apparently derived of
and at times equivalent to the 'Philosopher's Stone'.  the idea is very
old and, like most things ancient which have acquired a reputation for
being possessions of the powerful (e.g. 'the Spear of Destiny', 'Holy
Graal', etc.), they are claimed by numerous organizations in a variety
of ways (metaphorical, having obtained their 'formula'; literal, having
obtained the cache; spiritual, having obtained the structure or
disciplines whereby its essence manifests naturally, etc.).

with most organizations and power-sources these are entirely purposed to
derive and maintain membership and function as a carrot for slaves.  in
some cases the 'secret' may actually refer to something of physical and/or
mystical value coincident to or paralleling similar effects to those claimed.

in the case of this elixir, we may presume that an association of it with
sexuality may in some measure inspire juvenal effects (as the telos or
sex-enthusiasm may, being on the order of the fervency of life, also in
some way resist the entropism of age (possibly see Reichian 'Orgonics' for
more here as well).  I have no evidence that this leads to any kind of
physical 'immortality', though with a bit of exaggeration and concealed
metaphor I can easily see how 'immortality' can be turned to a shorter-term
and mystical significance.


#So far, the discussion seems to assume its actuality.

this is consistent within alchemical and Rosicrucian/Hermetic cultures,
and as you have inspired me I provide selections on this elixir/stone
for further reference (welcoming others who may wish to make comment/quote).

the paradigm from which this proceeds often includes a categorization of
the material and bodily as 'inferior' and 'mortal', including dualistic or
emanationalist metaphysics as a polar opposite to that of materialism
(in that the material *originates in the nonmaterial*).  this leads us to
concepts such as the 'Body of Light', the 'soul', and various other quasi-
or non-material substances/entities, usually either presumed of different
natures entirely or arranged in some sort of concentric and/or hierarchic
relationship (that of the 'more subtle' and less substantive being
presumed more central and/or essential).

this paradigm appears to take at least some of its elements from Plato,
with his Ideas or Forms (the originals after which all physical
manifestions are merely shadows -- see the Cave Analogy).  it may also
involve Plotinic concepts of emanation, arriving at more and more gross
substrates until the physical, death-imbued realm, is manifested.  almost
all of this may also be taken as mystical metaphor, which confuses matters
in wonderful ways (:>).

the concept of 'immortality' is valuably investigated.  it can imply the
usual mythological perpetuation of bodily living processes that are described
of such beings like angels, elves, dragons and some vampires.  it can also
imply some sort of 'spiritual perpetuity', inclusive of survival of the
personal consciousness beyond what we know to be the death experience.

likewise, it can imply a condition *during life* wherein our consciousness
is rarefied or concentrated (often described as one's spirit or essence
becoming comprised of or imbued by some fabulous substance, such as made
of crystals, diamonds, or adamantine).

all of these ideas ride along intersections of mystical and religious
paradigms (Spiritualist, Materialist, etc.) which have been adopted within
and adapted by Hermetics for centuries, though with few real variations
as to their core essentials beyond syncretic adjustment.  part of the
'sell' does after all involve the recognition of the product, to which
I now turn attention....

quoting Cavendish:

        3 The Elixir of Life
        
        MAMMON  But when you see th' effects of the Great Medicine,
                Of which one part projected on a hundred
                Of Mercury, or Venus, or the moon,
                Shall turn it to as many of the sun;
                Nay, to a thousand, so ad infinitum:
                You will belive me.

        SURLY   Yes, when I see't, I will.

        MAMMON  Do you think I fable with you?  I assure you,
                He that has once the flower of the sun,
                The perfect ruby, which we call the elixir, ['Star Ruby' mu]
                Not only can do that, but, by its virtue,
                Can confer honour, love, respect, long life,
                Give safety, valour, yea and victory,
                To whom he will.  In eight and twenty days
                I'll make an old man of fourscore, a child.

        SURLY   No doubt; he's that already.

                                BEN JONSON, _The Alchemist_

        The adept who made the Philosopher's Stone had also made the
        Elixir of Life.  Since it was divine and the perfect substance,
        the Stone was eternal and immortal.  Its possession restored
        youth to the elderly, virility to the impotent, innocence and
        happiness to the world-weary.  It healed the crippled, cured
        all diseases and resurrected the dead.

        ...The man who becomes the Stone has achieved true immortality.
        He has escaped the burden of successive mortal incarnations by
        becoming one with the eternal matrix, the One Life of the universe.

        [the Count of] St.-Germain ... had found the Philosopher's Stone
        and used it to make gold and the magnificent jewels with which
        his person was literally besprinkled.  He was believed to be over
        2,000 years old and to be either the Wandering Jew or the offspring
        of an Arabian princess and a salamander....

        St.-Germain attributed his astonishing longevity to his diet and
        his elixir ["water of rejuvenation"].  The elixir survives today
        as Saint-Germain Tea, a laxative made from senna.  The diet
        consisted chiefly of oatmeal, groats and white meat of chicken,
        with a little wine occasionally.  He also took elaborate precautions
        against catching cold.  He is presumed to have died in Germany in
        1784, but occultists believe that he was probably given a mock
        burial as, they say, Bacon was.  It is said that he was frequently
        seen alive in the next century and wa known to Bulwer Lytton.

        Although to possess the Stone was also to possess the Elixir,
        there have always been plenty of rival elixirs and rejuvenators
        on the market, involving methods ranging from drinking human
        blood or eating vipers, strongly recommended by Madame de Sevigne
        in the seventeenth century, to inhaling the breath of young girls
        or sleeping with them, called 'sunamitism' from the story of
        David and the Shunamite damsel of 1 Kings 1.  The search for
        magical renewal of youth and vigour still continues....

        Alcohol has long been a popular elixir.  Until recent times, in
        fact, alcohol was another term for the Elixir, or 'water of life',
        as it is called in various languages -- *aqua vitae, eau-de-vie,
        lebens-wasser*, and the Irish *uisgebeatha*, how shortened to
        'whiskey'.  In the early fourteenth century Arnald of Villanova
        identified it with alcohol in the modern sense, equating *aqui
        vini*, 'water of wine' with *aqua vitae*, but the word was not
        widely used in its modern meaning until the nineteenth centurty.
        Another name for alcohol was *aqua ardens*, because it is liquid
        and also burns; it was thought to be a combination of fire and
        water [cf native American 'firewater' mu] and so a form of the
        Stone.  Some medieval alchemists thought that alcohol was a form
        of the quintessence, the pure fifth elements of which the heavens
        are made....

        Gold was an obvious candidate for the Elixir, because the Stone
        was gold.  The *Archidoxa Medicinae* or Elixir of Life of
        Paracelsus is believed to have been made from gold and he
        valued 'potable gold' as a medicine for purifying the blood
        preventing miscarriages, as an antidote for poison, for keeping
        the Devil away if placed in a new-born baby's mouth, and especially
        for heart diseases, because gold and the heart are ruled by the sun.
        A sixteenth or seventeenth-century recipe says that to make potable
        gold you begin with three pints of red wine vinegar and the ashes
        of a block of tin, burnt in an iron pan.  Mix these together and
        distil them repeatedly.  Then heat one ounce of gold in a crucible
        with white salt.  Grind the mixture of gold and salt, heat it
        again, wash it with water until there is no taste of salt left.
        Add it to the vinegar-tin mixture, once ounce to the pint, and
        evaporate it to the consistency of honey.  Dissolve it in spirits
        of wine and you have potable gold.  It is significant that the
        recipe mentions alcohol and also honey and salt, both of which
        prevent decay....

        [Besides Bacon,] Another eminent English philosophy, Berkeley,
        hoped that he had found what might prove to be a 'universal
        medicine', a substance which carried the essence of life and cured
        all diseases, in 'tar-water', the dark resin exuded from pine-
        trees and firs mixed with cold water in the proportion of 1:4.
        He learned its uses on a mission to the American Indians....
        [during the mid-1700s; mu]

        Many occultists have speculated on the nature of life, what it
        consists of or in what substance it is contained, in the hope
        of using an 'essence of life' to stave off old age and cure
        disease.  According to Paracelsus, the essence of life is
        contained in an invisible substance called 'mumia'.  Blood,
        hair, sweat, urine and excrement [likely sexual efflucia also;
        mu] all retain, for a time, the vital power of the body from
        which they come, and it is possible to make from them a micro-
        cosmic magnet' which contains mumia and attracts it, in the
        same way that magnetised iron attracts iron.  If this is
        applied to the afflicted part of a patient's body, it draws
        off diseased mumia from that part.  The magnet is then mixed
        with earth and then a plant is grown in the earth.  The
        diseased mumia passes into the plant and the patient gets well.
        Paracelsus also used magnets to cure diseases caused by an
        imbalance or improper distribution of the basic components
        of the patient's body (and, much ealier, both Plato and Galen
        had said that disease is caused by imbalance of the body's
        components or elements)....

        These ideas were carried further two hundred years later by
        Franz Mesmer and his followers.  Mesmer published a thesis
        in 1766, in which he sadi that the movements of the planets
        affect the human body through an invisible fluid in which
        everything in the universe is immersed.  He first thought
        this fluid was electricity, but he later called it the fluid
        of 'animal magnetism', because it acted principally on living
        creatures and had magnetic properties....

        Mesmer's discovery that the magnetic fluid could apparently
        be controlled by the operator's will was the foundation of
        mesmerism and hypnotism.  His theories have also influenced
        occultists and had a profound effect on Eliphas Levi.  Levi
        identified the fluid of animal magnetism with the astral
        light, which exists in all the phenomena of the universe.
        It is both a substance and a force, a fluid and a type of
        light, and it was created by God's command 'Let there be
        Light.' [cf. GDawnian and Crowleyan rites which include the
        utterance 'Fiat LVX' as an essential element of the emanation
        of the Word of the mage; mu].  Like a magnet, it has opposite]
        poles.  It carries good and evil, it transmits light and
        propagates darkness.  The astral body is formed of it and it
        can be controlled by the human will [note the predominance of
        focus on 'will' among pre-Crowleyites; mu].  It is the astral
        light, he explains in _Key of the Mysteries_, which is 'the
        fluidic and living gold' of alchemy and to control it is to
        achieve mastery of all things.  'To direct the magnetic
        forces is then to destroy or create forms; to produce to all
        appearance, or to destroy bodies; it is to exercise the
        almight power of Nature.' [or that of 'God' should one be
        inclined of this mentality; mu]

        The belief in the existence of an Elixir of Life is a
        reflection of the magical theory that man is potentially
        divine.  God is eternal and incorruptible, and it follows
        that somewhere, if man could only reach it, immortality
        waits for him, too.

        _The Black Arts_, by Richard Cavendish, Putnam's Sons,
                1967; pp. 189-95.  [] bracketed are mu-comments.
        __________________________________________________________

        
and Crow:

        MEDIAEVAL AND RENAISSANCE ALCHEMY

        *Origin and Antecedents*.  The occult science of Alchemy
        bears much the same relation to Chemistry that Astrology
        does to Astronomy.  It is not, as was thought in the
        Victorian epoch, the early strivings towards chemical
        science, although alchemists did make chemical discoveries.
        In the Middle Ages and earlier it seemed inconceivable that
        anyone should want to study the pure science of matter,
        Chemistry.  The latter was only the means to an end.
        Alchemy was not a pure science.  It was applied to human ends.

        Alchemy had three main objects:

        1. The transmutation of the base metals into gold, or more
        generally the conversion of abundant relatively useless
        material into rare useful substances.  The transmutation
        into gold was generally believed to be possible provided
        one could discover the *Philosopher's Stone*, which was to
        be the agent of the transformation.  Sometimes instead of
        a stone, a red or brown powder (*powder of Projection*)
        was used.

        2. The prolongation of life indefinitely, or more generally,
        the cure of all disease and senility.  This was to be effected
        by an agent, generally thought of as a liquid, called the
        *Elixir of Life*.

        3. The creation of a human being from non-living chemical
        materials, such as an artificial man being called the *android*
        or *homunculus* [cf. the IX' secret document 'De Homunculus' in
        which Crowley relates sex magick secrets in the fabrication of
        the Magical Child, described previously in this series and
        conflated with the fabrication of the 'Elixir of Life' as the
        effluvia of ritualized sexuality in prescribed circumstances,
        often fabricating an astral or magical being to carry to fruition
        the desire/will of the magician; mu]; or in more general terms,
        to create living things from non-living [cf. various genesis
        stories in which the gods effect this very thing, being immortal
        and able to transmute substances from one to another; mu].

        It is interesting to note that modern science has to some extent
        achieved what the alchemists were trying to do.  The transmutation
        of the elements is now effected, and it is even possible to
        produce gold, although it is not worth while to do so from a
        commercial point of view.  Life has been prolonged to some degree
        by the discovery of the functions of vitamins and hormones, and
        the role of mineral salts.  The artificial synthesis of living
        things (although only of ultramicroscopic viruses) has been
        effected from complex chemicals.

        However, the alchemists did not work along the lines of modern
        science.  They constantly reiterated the need for prayer and
        religious devotion as affecting the work....  The alchemist,
        according to [Jung's idea that "unconscious psychic factors
        entered into the work"], was not only doing chemical experiments,
        but was undergoing his own psychological development at the same
        time....

        ... alchemy was practiced in ancient Egypt and among the Taoists
        of China.  It is from the former that alchemy takes its rise in
        the West, and Hermes Trismegistus was regarded as the chief
        founder of the science.....

        _A History of Magic, Witchcraft and Occultism_, by W.B. Crow,
                Whilshire Book Co, 1979; pp. 199-200. [] bracketed
                are mu-comments or rephrasings/condensation (re: Jung).
        _______________________________________________________________


and lastly, Seligmann:

        The Principles of Alchemy and the Philosopher's Stone

        What was the theory upon which the adepts based their practice?
        They have claimed that two principles -- the theory of the
        composition of metals, and that of their generation -- have
        served as the basis for their system.  To them, metals were
        composed of diverse substances, and all of them contained
        sulphur and mercury: varying proportions produced gold, silver,
        copper, etc.  Gold was supposed to be composed of a large
        proportion of mercury and little sulphur; in copper, both
        ingredients existed approximately in equal quantities.  Tin
        was an imperfect mixture of a small quantity of impure
        mercury and a large proportion of sulphur, and so forth.

        The Arab, Geber, had professed this in the eighth century,
        and affirmed that according to the ancients one could by
        efficacious operations vary the contents of metals and
        transmute one into another.  The theory of generation is
        formulated quite clearly in the medieval alchemical treatises.
        The theorists compared the process that was taking place in
        their vessels [cf. Grant's reference to 'vessels of earth' in
        previous posts on this subject; mu] to the generation of
        animals and vegetables.  Thus, for the producing of metals,
        it was necessary to discover their seed. [note the focus
        here on 'seed' and how this relates to the concepts of human
        reproduction and the presumption of male-origination; mu]

        For the adepts there existed no such phenomenon as an inorganic
        substance; every substance was endowed with life.  Life was
        influenced secretly by the stars, silent artisans working
        towards the perfection of metals.  At first imperfect, they
        changed gradually into perfect substances, and the process
        ended when they were ultimately transformed into gold.  A few
        Hermetics who had comprehended the meaning of the serpent
        biting its own tail [ouroboros; mu] supposed that the perfect
        metals were to undergo new transformations only to return
        again to base metals.  Thus they were to perpetuate the circuit
        of molecular change.

        However, these were only theories, and transmutation had to
        be accomplished in order to prove them.  From the twelfth
        century on, the alchemists declared that for their transmu-
        tations an agent was necessary.  This agent they called by
        many names -- the philosopher's stone, the philosophic powder,
        the great elixir, the quintessence, etc.  When touching the
        liquid metals, the philosopher's stone was thought to change
        them into gold.  The descriptions of this marvellous substance
        vary among different writers....

        Besides its power to transmute metals, the philosopher's stone
        had other marvellous virtues: it could cure all diseases and
        prolong life beyond its natural limits [note the paradigm here
        portrayed such that the work of the alchemists is a supernatural
        feat, one which bends the normal course of 'natural' events; mu].
        These virtues of the philosopher's stone have their counterpart
        in the Far East.  China also had its adepts, indeed before
        alchemy was known to the West.  ...Chinese alchemy is mentioned
        here because it possibly promoted Occidental alchemy.

        The Chinese, believing that gold was immortal, thought that
        when it was absorbed by the human body it could rended a man
        immortal.  The problem was to discover the 'wonder preparation
        of medicine', for gold powder could not be digested.  They
        wanted to find means other than that of breaking the metal up
        into small particles.  It was to be dissolved into a marvellous
        powder, a gold dust which 'spread mistily like wind driven by
        rain' through the five organs.  Such a powder could be obtained
        only through an alchemical operation.  The universal medicine,
        '*huantan*', freed its owner from all worldly miseries [note
        that this is a consistent theme regarding the results of mystic
        practices and disciplines; cf. Vedantic 'moksha' and the Buddhist
        'nirvana' as liberations; mu].  New teeth would grow, dark hair
        would cover the old man's baldness [thus, perhaps, 'Lao Tzu' or
        'Old Boy'; mu], and his sick wife would regain her girlhood.

        ...The Chinese alchemist used magical formulas in his work, and
        he trusted in the beneficent influence of the stars on his
        various and laborious procedures.

        Contrary to Western beliefs, the Chinese supposed that artificial
        gold, not true gold, was endowed with great magical power.  From
        cinnabar, a mercury ore, and other metals, the masters of the East
        strove to develop alloys which *resembled* gold.  It was sufficient
        to eat regularly from vessels made of such alloys to have
        immortality granted.  But the great Wei Po-Yang (*ca.* A.D. 100-
        150) did not have recourse to such artificiality.  He succeeded
        in manufacturing the true gold medicine [probably in pill form,
        which was a common fabrication: the Pill of Immortality; mu],
        and he and his pupil Yu became immortal, together with the wise
        man's dog which had eaten the scraps left on the plate ['is a god
        to live in a dog?'; 'does a dog have the buddha-nature?'; mu].
        The Chinese aimed 'only' at rejuvenation and eternal life, and
        the philosopher's gold was unknown to them.  Their art can be
        traced back to about 100 or 150 B.C., an epoch when alchemy was
        unknown in the West....

        The philosopher's stone contained marvellous virtues which may
        be called magical.  This is what the learned Agrippa has to say
        about it:

                An operation cannot proceed from a mere body.  All
                famous Poets and Philosophers affirm therefore that
                the world and all celestial bodies must have a soul,
                and also intelligence; hence, Marcus Manilius, in his
                _Astronomy to Augustus_, sings of:

                        'The great corporeal world, which doth appear
                        In divers forms, of air, earth, sea and fire,
                        A divine soul doth rule, a deity
                        Doth govern wisely....'

                ...And Virgil, richest in philosophy, sings thus:

                        'And first the heaven, earth, and liquid plain,
                        The moon's bright globe and stars titanian
                        A spirit fed within, spread through the whole*
                        And with the huge leap** mix'd infused a soul;
                        Hence man and beasts and birds derive their strain
                        And monsters floating in the marbled main;
                        These seeds have fiery vigour***, and a birth
                        Of heavenly race, but clogg'd with heavy earth.'
        
        [mu notes:
            * - development of the Body of Light, and parallel to the
                generation of an 'adamantine body' and/or the 'magical
                child within', perhaps relating to the Thelemic 'secret
                self' or 'dwarf self';

           ** - possibly related to later Rosicrucian/Hermetic ideas of
                of the 'Leap Across the Abyss' and perhaps 'Leap of Faith';

          *** - again the seeds are the source, relate 'vigour' and
                'VITRIOL'.  to wit:

                        Visita Interiora Terrae Rectificando
                        Invenies Occultum Lapidem.  "Visit the
                        interior parts of the earth: by
                        rectification thou shalt find the hidden
                        stone."  Its initials make the word
                        V.I.T.R.I.O.L., the Universal Solvent....
        
                        This "hidden stone" is also called the
                        Universal Medicine.  It is sometimes
                        described as a stone, sometimes a powder,
                        sometimes as a tincture.  It divides again
                        into two forms, the gold and the silver,
                        the red and the white [Lion/Eagle; mu];
                        but its essence is always the same, and
                        its nature is not to be understood except
                        by experience.  It is because the alchemists
                        were dealing with substances on the border-
                        land of "matter" that they are so difficult
                        to understand.  The subject-matter of
                        chemistry and physics in modern times is
                        what they would have called the study of
                        dead things; for the real difference
                        between living things and dead is, in the
                        first instance, their behaviour.

                        _The Book of Thoth_, Crowley,
                                Weiser, 1981; p. 104 ('Art').
                        ___________________________________________]

                What do these verses seem to mean other than that the world
                should have not only a spirit-soul but also should partake
                of the divine mind; and that the original virtue, vigour of
                all inferior things, depend upon the soul of the world?
                All Platonists, Pythagoreans, Orpheus, Trismegistus,
                Aristotle, Theophrastus, Avicenna, Algazel, and all
                Peripatetics confess and confirm this....

        There are four essences in the universe upon which not only Agrippa
        but all the learned through the centuries have agreed.  These are
        fire, water, earth and air.  However, there is a fifth essence,
        or quintessence, which permeates everything above in the stars and
        below upon earth.  It is the world soul-spirit which animates all
        bodies.  It is 'clogg'd with heavy earth', and never free or visible.
        Yet it is omnipresent, and he who can free this fifth element from
        the matter that it inhabits shall hold in his hand the creative
        power with which God has endowed the world of matter.  The ancient
        goddesses of growth and vegetation, like Isis, were nothing more
        to the alchemist than the emblems of the quintessence, the
        generative power that resides in the philosopher's stone.

        _The History of Magic and the Occult_, by Kurt Seligmann,
                Harmony Books, 1975; pp. 93-6.
        ___________________________________________________________________

personally I find the dualistic concept of ghosts inhabiting bodily meat-
puppets in the 'gross earth plane' objectionable, though I do see that
it is a compelling paradigm.  I tend to favor viewing these words and
their sources as metaphors in explaining the subjective and objective
experiences, and how these may be refined and rarefied into a kind of
'resurrection', a mystical consciousness-state which is pointed toward
in the prescription to 'become as little children'; entering into a kind
of revised or renewed 'Paradise' spoken of by countless religious.

these latter typically understand their words literally.  though
metaphorically, and as pertains to present-centered, living consciousness,
it has born me many fruits and is substantiated by my own magical workings.

        
#>that formula includes femina superiora (symbolized by the Tau cross) in
#>coitus with sustained movement and ejaculation-delay.  apparently this
#>is supposed to be similar to 'building up a charge' when silk is rubbed
#>vigorously against a glass rod.  the intercourse is referred in metaphor
#>to a ship in a storm, the 'captain' being the phallus or male (likely on
#>account of his ability to determine most precisely when the threshold
#>of ejaculation is about to occur and may thus communicate it to the
#>priestess).
#
#The result of this has been a state of visual clarity resembling what I have
#attained through use of LSD.  On occasion, that is.

the persistence and stabilization of that 'occasional' experience or its
deeper form appears to be a common objective of mystical and magical
exploration and discipline.


#I found that the most impressive results I obtained were during a period of my
#life when I was shuttling between four different lovers, frequently all in a
#weekend.  I attributed this to the variations of expectations and preferences
#I encountered.  Unfortunately, at the time this was going on, my interest was
#not fixed on the metaphysical aspects of the union.

sometimes fixations can be a detriment to the work, sometimes a benefit.


#>it is true that to some extent these are psycho-
#>somatic skills (esp. the first), but there is a definite relationship
#>between the breath and tension-relaxation of the body and at least the
#>latter.

I'd clarify this.  by 'first' I meant recovery of erection.  by 'latter'
I meant the delaying of orgasm, which you appear to have understood.  the
original text was transposed, which I shall manually rectify.


#Confirms/fits my experience.  I had had a long term relationship with a woman
#who was slow in coming, but very convulsive once there, which dragged me to
#ejaculation despite myself.  With a different lover, her breathing pattern
#during her orgasm was such that my orgasm was frequently delayed significantly,
#sometimes to the point that I was unable to reach orgasm.  Since she had
#multiple orgasms, I found myself approaching, then receding from orgasm
#repeatedly.

coordination with partners (however many these be) is an imperative element
of the science of intimatics (of which 'tantric sex' or 'sex magick' is one
element).


#>PREVENTING EJACULATION
#
#>everything snipped
#
#Very interesting.  Thanks for the post.

you're welcome.  thanks for the inspiration to elaborate.

E6/6/6

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