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To: personal email
From: tyagi nagasiva (tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com)
Subj: Kali and Tantric Monasticism (9306.kalittr.tn)
Date: 49930617
Quoting: |(has not approved publication of name)

|Well, to be honest I know almost nothing of Her.  In general I tend
|to think very logically.  However in this case I'm following where I
|feel led.  

Yes, this is my path also.  I hook my will to my intuition and let
Her take me where She may.  This is what I mean by 'monk'.


|The way I see Her she exists but does not exist.  The Devine is
|infinite, with an infinite number of aspects and roads that one can
|take to reach the Devine.  

For me the divine is also finite.


|As the Devine is beyond human
|comprehension, we must pick models, or metaphors for the Devine that
|we can understand and interact with.  No metaphor is perfect, but each
|is better than not having one.

Some use 'archetype' and seem to mean some sort of reduced reality of
the Goddess.  I'm unconvinced that She is less substantial than ourselves.


|This does not change the fact that She exists.  Her existance is not
|precluded by her being a metaphor, an aspect of the Devine.  (At this
|point words fail to be able to describe how this is true.  I can
|'feel' the truth in the concept, but not put it in words.)

I personally don't like to think of Her as 'an aspect of the divine'.
She is the totality for me.  Her appearance as a blue or black woman
with four arms is simply a the tip of the iceberg.  Her divinity
is not contained within that image.  Many psychologists do seem to enjoy
characterizing deities this way, and I can see its value.  I don't feel
that it leads me to a deep relationship with Her, however.


|...I went around
|speaking to Pagan friends about this feeling of being helped, and that
|I was trying to find a name to put on the deity, and when I described
|what I felt about Her they gave me the name.

Wonderful!  I'd love to know what you felt about Her prior to expressing
it to your friends, [M] or myself.  I find that these times of
'introduction' are sometimes the most intense in their wisdom.  You are
as much a teacher as you are a student, and I'd learn from you.
 

|I took the name and started reading what little I could find easily.
|I have some books I recently aquired that I've not read yet, and they
|should tell me more.  But what I have read fit very closely with what
|I've been doing lately and how I've been working.  It seemed very
|close to me, and very 'right.'

Many books on 'tantra' are quite androcentric and ascetic in their approach,
I find.  This I consider to be 'the right-hand path' of tantra.  While it
is very wonderful, it isn't the whole picture.

Pictures of and passages about Kali helped me to connect with Her more
deeply.  I hope that this is true for you as well.  My own experience,
however, is that there are many descriptions for Her made by others which
do not conform to my experience.  That She demands, that She requires,
that She is wathful even to Her devotees.  These assertions may well
be true for some, but not for me.  See Soc.Religion.Eastern for more
on this.  


|> |  When [M] mentioned that you worshiped Kali I wanted to ask you about
|> |current worship of Kali, 
|> 
|> Very well, what would you like to know?  Are you interested in the
|> practices which currently occur in Kalighat, India, those of people
|> in resurgent nature-religions, or my own?
|
|All of the above if possible.  I'm trying to see how other people
|have served Her, so that I can create my own service, combining those
|aspects that are most me.  

Understood.  I'll do my best.  More below.


|> Much of this is intellectual in content (I've a good sized library of
|> works on Hinduism accumulated here), but I also take quite a bit of time 
|> in speaking directly and via computer with people of very many paths
|> and practices, including Hindu.
|
|You may consider me very envious of you in your situation.

Envy is one of those symptoms of attachment which I've discovered to have
very deep roots. ;>  You may come to my situation any time which
you desire.  Come and visit, stay a while.  The House of Kaos is fairly
large, and you would be welcome to do research here if you could provide
for your resources.  You'd have to convince the House residents that
you were worthy of continuing to live here if staying more than a week
or two. :>  As far as I'm concerned, any devotee of Kali is welcome in
the place I stay.  I attempt to make here a Temple for Her.  
 

|> ...If you'd simply
|> like an overview of the various aspects of Hinduism as a religious
|> complex, I'd be happy to lay out one or two of those as well.
|
|I'd like a general overiew of Hindu principles if possible.  I've
|read a small intorductory book on Hinduism and have a good background
|on the history and development, but I'm very week on current religous
|practices of Hinduism, and have nothing at all about practicies of
|Hinduism in the US.

Ok, a brief overview of Hinduism and some aspects of practice.


Yogas

The breakdown I've found quite valuable to understand Hinduism (indeed ALL
religion) is that which revolves around the 'chakra' (wheel) system of
yogic metaphysics.  I don't particularly care whether this has a physical
or psychological reality so much as that it describes in a way which is
quite comprehendable the practices and ideas that religions present to
the researcher.


The Chakras

These body energy-centers vary in number depending upon the teacher and
tradition.  For this model I shall use 5 such centers, though I'm sure
that more could be added.  These include the Crown, Throat, Heart,
Diaphragm and Base chakras.  Such a system is spoken of in many tantric
texts, yet it is also a very valuable resource when speaking of the
focus on particular disciplines within a religious complex such as
Hinduism.


Base, or Root Chakra: Tantra Yoga (Union through Weaving)

Tantric disciplines focus on the body and the purification of the
lowest energy-centers.  This includes things like the consumption of
taboo and disgusting items to break attachments and anxieties, intimacy
with others to break attachments to pleasure and personae, and variation
in the physiology through asceticism and indulgence so as to allow us
to release our attachments to particular mindstates.

The practices of tantra vary based on the kind of tradition from which
it springs.  In 'right-handed' tantra (the term apparently derives from
a particular ritual practice in which the woman sits on the right-hand
of the man) many of the taboo activities are symbolic, focus is more
heavily on ascetic discipline (called 'tantric yoga' and involving
things like pranayama (breathwork), visualization and the energizing
of all the chakras).

The 'left-hand' path involves intentional enjoyment of experience
without restraints of any kind whatsoever, release of goal-oriented
thought-constructs, and engaging in activities which are feared and/or
illegal with consciousness in order to break down our social programming.


Diaphragm, or Solar Chakra: Karma Yoga (Union through Action)

This style of Hinduism is most popularly demonstrated by Mohandas K.
Ghandi, whose political activism and 'satryagraha' (soul force) was
so effective in South Africa and India.  It involves the purificiation
of the power-center by means of diligent activity and nonviolence.
I'm unsure of the specifics of any traditional practices which surround
this, but some of the other paths incorporate it as a means to achieve
administrative results in ashrams (i.e. to do chores, etc.).


Heart Chakra: Bhakti Yoga (Union through Dedication)

Bhakti and jnana yogas are the most popular forms in Hinduism, to my
knowledge, perhaps followed closely by tantra.  Where tantra focusses
on physicality and jnana on ascetic intellectualism, bhakti centers
on emotional dedication.  This is the path which is so often identified
with ISKCON (the 'Hare Krishnas') and seems to be quite heavily linked
with the worship of Vishnu generally (sometimes referred to as 'The
Preserver', whose avatars are presumed to have been Rama, Krishna, and,
some claim, Ramakrishna).

Bhakti is quite a beautiful practice, often involving the objectification
of the deity, chanting, singing, and interacting with the chosen Personal
aspect of the divine.  In this way Hindus have become known to some
monotheists as 'idol worshippers' because of their identification of
god with particular objects (statues, pictures, etc.).  Washing, feeding
and putting the object to sleep are not uncommon activities of devoted
bhaktas.  The goal is to taste the sweet love of the Guru (either as
a form of deity or even in an a human form).  The guru (teacher) without
inspires the Guru within, and through this the disciple becomes a true
Lover of the divine.

There are many different aspects of this practice, and while some are
content to ever maintain a distince difference between themselves and
their deity, some claim that eventually along this path one transcends
the Personal or Immanent aspect to ALSO encompass the Impersonal or
Transcendant.


Throat (and/or 'Third Eye') Chakra: Jnana Yoga (Union through Knowledge)

Here is the opposite end of the spectrum from tantra and a yoga which
is sometimes paired with bhakti quite effective (as with those many
worshippers of Shiva who take up the life of asceticism).  Very very
many of the popular gurus of Hinduism have been jnana yogis (Maharshi,
Ramakrishna, etc.) though some of them comprehended some of the essence
of the other paths also.

Jnana means 'knowledge', as I remember, and it is through restriction
of bodily pleasures and doings, along with intense meditation and study,
that one comes to realize the state of perfection.  Here we find those
who take up extremities of physical and psychological discipline, such
as going without food, sleep and most other recreations that many of us
take for granted.

Sometimes this is combined with a very world-hating philosophy; quite
an effective tool transcend attachment to the physical world.  Those
who take up the traditional ochre cloth of the 'sannyasin' are often
homeless beggars, wandering and receiving alms from the public.  They
spend great amounts of time in meditative trance, forgetting the body
and its desires.

It was from this ascetic path that the Buddha arose as an alternative,
drawing back for the extemities of mortification, cleaving to a Middle
Way revolution.  Gautama was, like the later person known as Jesus
the Christ, known as a heretic to some Hindus, though it appears that
his teachings may well have been assimilated completely by Hindus as
an avatar of Vishnu.  Fascinating history.
 

Crown Chakra: Raja Yoga (Royal Union)

I've not read much on this, but my impression from Vivekananda and a
few others is that this is an individual combination of the previous
yogic paths.  There are many traditions within each of the yogic
divisions and as far as I know there is some overlap even within those
traditions that go to extremes (devotion to Shiva in jnana, for example).

Raja means 'king' or 'royal' and I gather that it is more or less the
metaphor of te Great Work from Hermeticism or the 8-Fold Path to Nirvana
from Buddhism - a personal formula which satisfies individual needs.


Epilogue

The goals in each yoga seem to vary with the tradition, its philosophy
and the understanding of the individual practicioner.  Some wish to
pursue social goals, some indulgent pleasure, some the escape from
bodily experience.  There is everything represented here in terms of
cosmology from 'This is Heaven' (tantra) to 'This is Hell' (jnana).

Understandings vary from the literal and quite simple to the complex
and metaphorical.  Some see the 'Guru within' to be the burgeoning Self
of an avatar.  Some see the release (moksha) of meditative glory to
be the release of one's hold upon the world.  I've found quite a great
deal of value in approaching each philosophical system from a
psychological perspective (Jung, Maslow, etc.) as well as from the
writings of some eminent Western philosophers (Hegel, Whitehead, etc.).

In short, it varies TREMENDOUSLY, and though these categories may be
easy lenses through which to view this incredibly old and vibrant
religious complex, it cannot be taken as anything which always holds
or that is without flaws.  As I have never been to India to investigate
these things personally (though I have seen videos, read books and spoken
with people who've been there) I retain a bit of skepticism regarding
the whole thing.


Geography:

People in India or who have lived in India seem to be described very
well by the foregoing, though I've seen that many Hindus, just like any
other religion, are born into it and never really have the same faith as 
some who have choose the path of their own free will.

I'm not really sure how people who find Hinduism exterior to India
practice other than myself and handful of others who have similar
ideas/feelings as myself.  I gather that we've been profoundly
influenced by the art of India (writings, paintings, sculpture)
and have either sought out immigrants to our home country, ventured
to India and returned, or begun a variant on the whole affair.

I'm a member of this last category.  I find, with Kali's guidance,
that I must reinterpret all the texts which come to me because they
are overly extreme in hating the world.  I find that the practices
described about Indians may or may not be for me.


My own practice:

Contrary to a number of scholars on these subjects, I find that
the spiritual life is not something separate from the physical and/or
social life.  I do not make divisions in my time and/or effort for
'sacred time' or 'sacred space'.  I continue to focus on the present
moment as the experience of the divine, in whatever circumstance, in
whatever condition.

My path is as a tantric monk.  I do not consider this to really be a
'religion', as I've seen that tantra transcends and subsumes religion,
giving manifestation to various forms of practice and thought, well
represented by Indian yogis and yoginis, Tibetan Buddhists, and
Japanese Shingon.  I wear what I understand to be robes traditional
to many traditions (including the sufi and hermetic), engage as few
social contracts as I'm able, living in the present, consider myself
devoted, dedicated and married to Kali-Ma, and follow my intuition
through the trials and joys of daily existence.

Currently I've found that one particular woman is quite important
to me, and I call her my 'shakti', my 'Scarlet Woman', and my 'Abyss'.
This is a very special relationship which is spoken of in both tantric
and hermetic texts.  We have no contracts but we have a very strong
bond which is fulfilled through our communication, honesty and a firm
willingness to look inward carefully, living in uncertainty.

I've taken monastic vows, so as to conform more toward my hristian
kin, yet these are guidelines, guard-rails rather than self-restrictions.
I'll outline these for you if you desire.  Lately I've kept my hair
short but for a very long forelock, wear indian dhoti (pajamas) beneath
my robes, and am minimizing my personal possessions as part of a vow
of poverty.  I currently have few restrictions I've set for myself,
though my diet is fairly consistently comprised of grains and legumes.

As part of my practice as network information about occult and spiritual
traditions, organizations and people, correspond with people all over
the globe, and dedicate at least half my time to this (of late it has
been about a 60-hr week at least and I've been unemployed - I may have
to go back to 40-hour week with half-time job to support my urban
residence, else I'll become a wandering monk, per Her will).

I changed my name upon my 'chaonation' (I like to think I'm walking
through the 'Order of Kaos') to more accurately reflect my lifestyle
and values.  Tyagi is a rough equivalent of 'monk' and Nagasiva is
a composite veneration of Nagarjuna, my favorite Buddhist philosopher
and Siva, the tantric god of erotic asceticism. ;>

I often chant mantra, sometimes sit meditation or do my own form of
shamanic journey, or engage ecstatic dance/music.  I'm fond of reading,
though do less of it beyond communications these days, and do a fair
share of local noncyber networking (involving myself in a Western
tantric org - OTO, and visiting with many different local orgs or
having them over for a visit).  The House of Kaos is a consensual
collective of four adults and a Doggess of Discord whom I consider
a type of tantric monastery.

I'm working on ways to support myself without compromising my values
or vows, and enjoy serving the public WHILE I serve myself.  I'm not
into an egoless, selfless path, considering that such concepts as
the separation between self and God are not worthwhile to me.


Anything else I can explain, answer or describe about myself I'd be
happy to attempt.  Openness to communications is part of my vows, and
I want to be sure that you understand exactly what I'm saying.

I'd also like to hear anything you'd like to tell me about your own
life and 'practice'. :>


|> ...I'm reading _The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna_,... 
|
|I've seen that book, and a lot of reference to him.  I'd be
|interested to know what value it has.

The editor is a devotee and his bias shows.  Ramakrishna may well have
been attached to asceticism and seemed to evidence for rather extreme
(though understandable given the time period - 1800s) ideas about
women.  I'm currently discussing this in SRE with some others.  Should
be a very interesting discussion given that while I consider him a sort
of guru for me I will attack him as fiercely as I would any other source.



|I am crawling now when I should be flying, but yet I travel toward
|Her. 

How can you tell what you 'should be' doing?  What is flying but
crawling in air instead of on ground?  Why would Kali care about
your 'progress' as long as your love is true?
   

|Uppitiness is showing more self-esteem than your oppressors would prefer.

I really like this.  Thanks.


Tyagi