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From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (nagasiva)
Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.fan.kali.astarte.inanna,alt.pagan,talk.religion.misc,alt.evil
Subject: Re: Animal Sacrifice (Was Re: Embarrassing Satanism (Was Re: Denise's ...)
Date: 17 Mar 1995 12:58:03 -0800
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Kali Yuga 49950317


acelt@netcom.com (Felis Uncia) quotes me and writes:

[nagasiva]
|>|>I do understand that those who prefer to think of 'pets' as different
|>|>in some fundamental way from 'foodsource' may argue to the contrary,
|>|>and when you speak of cats I think that there is something else
|>|>going on (predator competition, for example), and yet would you rather
|>|>have the 'Humane Society' killing them or a Satanic cult?

[somebody else]
|>|Obviously, there is no difference between pets and foodsources.

[nagasiva]
|>Actually there is.  The difference lies not only in our emotional 
|>relationship with domesticated animals (we get emotional satisfaction
|>out of having animal-slaves whom we can stroke and soothe our anxieties),
|>but also in that the domesticated usually aren't very good eating (esp.
|>as compared to cows or chickens or something).

|tyagi, there are several cultures who might disagree with you concerning 
|the delectibility of dogs &c.  Also of cows....

Of course, the Filipinos apparently have a taste for dogmeat, and the
Indians seem to regard cow as sacred (and thus beyond consumption code).
I think these are just cultural norms showing through.  My main point
concerned *cats* or hamsters or other 'pets' than dogs, these latter of
which can indeed be eaten with relish (and other fine sauces).  I guess 
cats can too, but are stringy or tough or something.


|>|the general impression that I have of animal sacrifice (and
|>|correct me if I'm wrong) is that there is something gained
|>|in bringing about a bloody, violent (and presumably 'painful')
|>|death to the animal.  If this were not the case, then the only
|>|objection one could raise would be a religious one.

|Hmmm....  The implicit question would seem to be whether the power is 
|contained in the blood itself, as some cultures have evidently believed, 
|or generated/released by the suffering of the animal, as questioned 
|above, and asserted by some of today's more noted fantasy writers.  

You are now bringing in the theoretical explication of the phenomenon,
which could be a rationalization after the fact.  This is why I asked
about butchers and hunters in another thread.  Warriors and murderers 
would have to be studied and interviewed to determine this.


|>|...blood sacrifices have been given to gods in many or most cultures.  
|>|Were these done in order to please (or appease) the gods in some way, 

|>I imagine that they are rationalized in many different ways.  Perhaps
|>we can get someone from Kali rites to answer this (thus I Xpost this
|>to alt.fan.kali.astarte.inanna).

|>Can anyone say why goat-sacrifices (and other animals actually) are
|>performed?  If there is interest I can extract something from the
|>book _Kali: The Black Goddess of Dakshineswar_.  I know there are a few
|>paragraphs which address this point and I outlined them because this
|>is particularly interesting to me.

|One wonders as to the rationale.  Especially as to why it should be 
|necessary to kill the animal on behalf of the God(s) when one might 
|reasonable assume the God(s) in question perfectly capible of doing so 
|themselves.  

Well, let's let Harding speak for Hindus, until someone posts (all
typographical errors my own):

"Most temples dedicated to Shakti, the Divine Mother, have a sacrificial
place either near or in in the Natmandir [spacious music hall].  It is a
two-forked wooden pole used during the ritual wherein an animal, generally
a goat, is beheaded and sacrificed to Kali - an act which completely
horrifies our pet-conscious western society.  How terrible, how barbaric!
But, what about our slaughterhouses?  One wonders what the answer would
be if a goat or sheep bred for food could speak and were asked what it
prefers: to die in a modern slaughterhouse or at the sacrificial pole of
Kali?  To be distributed in freezer boxes or to be cooked and eaten after
the worship by devotees with reverence?

"Suppose people in the West were to be asked, 'Is it wrong to kill an
animal in a temple and offer it to God?'  Ninety-nine, if not one-hundred,
percent of them will say, 'Yes.'  Then, suppose all the people who said
'Yes,' were to be asked: 'Is it wrong to kill an animal in a slaughter-
house?'  Only the vegetarians among them could say, 'Yes,' with a clear
conscience.  Most of us do not kill animals and probably never will, but
if we eat meat, we kill by creating a demand for meat.  It is easy to
judge foreign customs, yet it is very difficult to look objectively at
one's own habits.

"The question arises, is Ma Kali cruel to animals?  The answer is, no.
Throughout history the Great Goddess was considered the Mother of all and
this includes wild animals.  All animals belong to her, and to this day,
nobody is allowed to wear leather in her presence in the temple.  Animals
are offered to Kali as a sacrificial rite and afterward they are cooked
and distributed as prasad (sanctified food) -- as a gift from the Goddess.

_Kali: The Black Goddess of Dakshineswar_, by Elizabeth Harding, p. 113
_______________________________________________________________________


"The darkest night of the moon is of special significance to Kali worship,
and a festival held the day before the night of the new moon (amavasya)
is repeated every month.  During this special worship, an animal is
sacrificed to Ma Kali.  The morning worship draws thousands of people to
the Dakshineswar Kali Temple.  They come for various reasons.  Some come
to get darshan {EH note: See a holy face.} of Kali while others come to
see the excitement and to watch a priest sacrifice a male goat.

"Before the animal is sacrificed, priests bathe the goat in the Ganges
while the morning puja is still going on.  Then they carry the animal
up the steps, past the Natmandir and into the Kali Temple.  The pujari
performs a short ritual, and worships the goat by putting vermillion
and flowers on its head.  Then he walks behind Kali's altar and takes
down one of her swords, handing it to a small, thin man who humbly 
accepts it.

"Meanwhile, the goat is carried outside, through the Natmandir and to the
sacrificial place (bali) {Bali = to cut; bali-sthan = cutting-place}.  
Priests and assistants follow in procession, carrying incense and items
for worship -- a casket containing vermillion and an earthen pot
covered with a banana leaf and one ripe banana.  Their faces solemn, the
priests wave incense in all directions as they walk from Kali's shrine
to the bali.  They pay no attention to the intermittent shouts, throaty
and brutal, that arise from within the assembled crowd.  The pujari
worships the sacrificial pole and then purifies the surrounding area by
uttering holy mantras.

"Although people crowd and push to get a closer look, nobody dares to 
block Ma Kali's view.  They leave room for a narrow lane which starts
at the inner sanctum of Kali and runs straight to the sacrificial place.
When the thin man in charge of the execution worships the sword and then
lifts it up high for Kali to see, there is a hushed, tense silence.
Pilgrims, priests, businessmen, beggars, and children alike, all seem
to hold their breath.  But when the head of the goat comes off with one
strike and rolls in the sand, a tremendous noise breaks loose.  Drums,
gongs, and cymbals herald the sacrifice's completion.  Women produce a
high-pitched sound by singing a high note while wagging their tongues.
It's an eerie sound, but considered auspicious when performed at
important moments.  Adding to the general excitement, men shout, 'Jai
Kali,' and children peek around the saris of their mothers to see
something they are not sure they want to see.

"After the sacrifice, one priest takes the head of the goat and puts it
on a silver plate and carries it back into the inner shrine of Kali.
The small man who beheaded the goat is busy worshipping the bali with
vermillion and flowers, while servants carry the body of the goat to
the kitchen where it will be cleaned, cooked and served to Kali during
the food offering of the goat.  Uttering mantras, they light a small
ghee light on the goat's head, and then offer it to Kali."

Ibid, pp. 117-8. {EH notes in brackets}
_______________________________________


"Animals throughout history have given their lives so that human beings
can live.  We have slaughtered animals for food as well as for salvation,
and the belief that the killing of life can eradicate one's sins is not
unique to Hinduism.  The 'scapegoat,' in some form or another, appears
in most religions.  Christians believe that through the death of Christ,
they were given eternal life and their sins were eradicated.  By
sacrificing animals in front of Ma Kali, Hindus believe they have
symbolically chopped off their lust, greed, anger, jealousy, selfishness
and ego.

"Right or wrong?  One could debate endlessly on this subject and still
never reach a conclusion.  There will always be people who think it is
their right to eat meat, and there will always be others who refute them.
One may take the middle road and point out that anything carried to
excess is bad.  Fanaticism is a bane that has plagued this world too
long, and people who were so sure that they were right have done massive
evil throughout history.  Evil rarely comes dressed as evil and often
appears in the form of a powerful, 'virtuous' leader.  And what can be
more deadly than virtue carried to excess?"

Ibid, p. 119.
_____________

[Kali Puja Night]

"The night is black, and although it is getting late, nobody looks tired.
About 1 A.M. the animals are brought into the temple.  Four attendants
walk in succession within the roped-off area toward the Great Mother
Goddess, each carrying a goat.  Stroking the animal he carries with
intimate affection, one attendant stands in line waiting to show the
goat to Kali.  The goats are wet and look somewhat dazed.  They have
been bathed in the Ganges and now face a tremendous crowd, cheering them
and shouting excitedly.  The kirtan party in the Natmandir has been
singing without break since early afternoon and has now reached a fever
pitch.

"One by one, each goat enters the inner sanctum where the pujari performs
a ritual and worships the goat.  He utters mantras, puts vermillion on
the animal and offers it to Kali.  Once the rite is performed, an
attendant dressed in a dhoti from the waist down, picks up the animal.
'Jai Ma,' he shouts as he runs between the ropes twoard the sacrificial
place.  The masses yell as he lifts the goat high above his head and
shows it to the crowd.

"Another attendant is walking a wet sheep toward Kali's inner shrine.
Gently stroking the animal, he pushes it forward and inside the inner
sanctum.  After some time, the attendant and sheep come back outside.
Without looking right or left, the sheep runs straight between the
ropes and the shouting mass of people, toward the sacrificial place.

"All this is quite shocking to an onlooker who has not grown up with
this custom.  In the West, one rarely sees death because people cover
it up the instant it occurs.  But if one thinks about this Western
custom, it's rather amazing that death should be so scary to people
who do not mind -- some even enjoy -- to look at violence and gore.
To the Hindu, on the other hand, all is worship -- life, death,
business, sex, birth -- all are God-given.  And tonight, these animals
have become God.  God is being offered to God while loud drums and
the strange, high-pitched sound women produce with their mouths and
consider auspicious echo across the dark Ganges.

"A servant runs between the ropes twoard the inner sanctum, carrying
the head of a goat on a platter.  Now, the goat has become a statue --
far removed and impartial.  Other servants carry the other goat heads,
the head of the sheep, sugarcane and pieces of squash which also have
been sacrificed at the bali into the inner shrine of Kali.

"Farther down the Natmandir, a tall man, dressed like a Calcutta
gentleman, moves through the crowd and freely distributes water from
a bottle.  The water looks clear but it contains blood.  The man has
washed the blood off the holy sacrificial place and desires to share
the treasure.  Hands stretch toward him, and he puts a few drops into
each.  People devoutly drink the water and wipe the remaining drops
on top of their heads.  'Jai Ma.'

"A small man, his body and clothes blood-stained, staggers between
the ropes toward the Kali shrine.  In his right hand he holds the
blood sword used to behead the animals and vegetables.  On Kali's
front steps, the man collapses into a shastanga pranam {A full
prostration wherein a person lies down on the floor, head down and
arms stretched toward the object of worship.}  The animal sacrifice
is over."

Ibid, pp. 138-40.
_________________


|Further, considering what I know (admittedly little) of such as Kali, 
|I wonder that it wouldn't be viewed as presumptuous.

Apparently Kali desires these ceremonies.  At least Her priests think
so, and they continue them regularly.  Who would know better than Her
priests?


|>|(I'm not certain that the 'transference of powerlessness' argument 
|>|makes this a worthwhile practice)

|>For you?  For others?  Shall you regulate based on your tastes?

|...At what point (assuming one exists) does it become 
|necessary/ethical/mandatory to regulate?  

'When it becomes "excess"' I can hear Harding say.  Perhaps when it
endangers the food supply? :>


|Further, do the same restrictions (or lack of them for that matter) 
|apply to human sacrifice/blood magic(k)s as to animal?  Should they?

I presume that human sacrifice ought include the full, legal consent
of the individual involved and follow the local sanitary customs 
regarding consumption of human flesh (most are presently prohibitory,
probably).  I'd think that the sword should be sharp, the executioner
practiced, and the aim careful, as well as carefully timed (ritually).

nagasiva, tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (TOKUS)