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a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
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a cache of usenet and other text files pertaining
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To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.tantra,alt.consciousness.mysticism From: nagasiva@luckymojo.com (nagasiva yronwode) Subject: Guru Benefits and Detriments (was Re: Can't shut my mind up) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 08:53:45 GMT 50000618 Vom sri catyananda concerning the problems with Sai Baba: >>> Obviously, in many of their cases, having *that* guru >>> was worse than having none. probably Emir: >>Wrong. What do you think, how stupid they were before entering the >>relationship with such a "guru"? And how much wiser are they now? this is irresponsible advice. the reason that traditions have developed, ostensibly, is so that those taking on the role of the external guru will be of a certain quality and maturity so as not to mishandle and damage the dedicated. your suggestion that deception, abuse, and manipulation by the charlatan is not worse than having none does not strike me as based on your own experience or the real descriptions of people who have been 'taken for a ride' (to use one popular title from a book about such a guru named 'Swami Rama', among other names). this character of "wisdom" is hardly useful for holistic spiritual development and will more than likely cause a trauma which will COMPLICATE AND MAKE MORE DIFFICULT any future guru-chela relationship. >>It's not about taking care of your ass, it's about >>spiritual growth. I don't think you know what spiritual growth is, based on your expressions about it in usenet. I don't make that comment lightly. sienna555@aol.com (Sienna555): >That is an excellent point! I learned more from ppl claiming >to be what they were not than I have from ppl claiming to be >what they were. I think you're seriously underestimating the depth and psychic repercussions of a guru-chela relationship. >>> No offense is intended to any legitimate guru or student -- I just >>> wanted to speak on behalf of balance and social caution. >> >>Social caution is poor substitute for intelligence. intelligence is not the likely result of the situation you seem to be defending. >>What would tiger be without it's ferocity? >>What's a man without exploratory spirit? it is one thing to be aware of potential hazards and go out to meet them, knowing the dangers and facing them squarely. it is a completely different matter when one thinks that one is absolutely safe and is cut down by a parasitic and sociopathic assault with one's defenses down. this hardly compensates anyone for an "exploratory spirit", though if you're a spiritual thrill-seeker, then you can use the caution as a challenge and go after faux guru to become a chela! the warning needn't stop you and might point you in the direction of new challenges. >One cannot learn to walk without falling down a few times. such a stupendous understatement can only be explained by ignorance. the cataclysm of being betrayed and vampirized by one's guru (esp. in traditional situations) should be compared with abuse by one's parents. it is no joking matter and probably more like falling from a cliff (which one does not do 'a few times') and from which few if any ever derive any kind of benefit. blessed beast! nagasiva -- mailto:nagasiva@luckymojo.com ; http://www.luckymojo.com/nagasiva.html mailto:boboroshi@satanservice.org ; http://www.satanservice.org/ emailed replies may be posted; cc replies if response desired
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