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To: talk.euthanasia,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.out-of-body,alt.pagan,alt.spiritual.energy
From: satanservice.org@boboroshi (SOD of the CoE)
Subject: Death and Astral Travel (was Crossing Over)
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 00:19:50 GMT

50040229 vii om

The Last Church :
#># ...no one knows what is more than a few steps beyond death,

bobo:
#> nonsense, there are very careful records of dessication and decay
#> of the body from a few moments after death to complete dissolution
#> of the bodily corpus. there is no evidence that anything subjective
#> survives the death experience.

"Onno Westerman" :
# Nonsense,  evidence enough... in all kind of forms...
# although not scientificaly...

I'm curious. could you point out some of what you consider to
be such evidence? does its nonscientific character at all
concern you or cause you to doubt its implications?

#># and I have been dead.
#>
#> nonsense. 'have been' implies a complete voyage. the only dead
#> folks are the ones what ceased function *and* discorporated. you
#> may believe that you lost consciousness or were 'brain dead' for
#> so long or whatever, but unless your claim is something like
#> that of reincarnation, your contention about having died is
#> demonstrably false (by examining your still living body).
#>
# Yes, [ok] here you are right because  he means he was [clinically]
# dead[.]  so as we say in holland     klinisch dood......and only 
# braindead or not measurable functioning....   flatliner....in 
# [which] case only a [CPR] might work to bring you back....

that was my main argument, yes. few truly understand the entire
range of possible meaning for "coming back from the dead"
in their proclamations about it. this is as true about the
2000-year-old dead as about yesterday's flatliner.

#># All anyone could tell you is death is only a door.
#>
#> nonsense. we can also tell you that death is the natural end to
#> all living beings, and that as far as we know there is no evidence
#> that anything contained within or associated with the living body
#> survives the death experience. bones last a long time, but even
#> they eventually also become dust.
#
# Nonsens,  your spirit is departing your body 

and do you have some kind of pointer to confirming evidence that
such a spirit exists beyond the body? I don't believe in such 
a spirit, think this is a misunderstanding of the details of
consciousness and of subjective experience, and I'm still very
interested in hearing what people regard as evidence of such
spirits, afterlives, etc.  thanks.

# and the Silver cord will be broken then  you really are dead... 

I've heard of the vaunted "Silver Cord" before, yes. is it a
thing you've observed yourself, or is it a part of doctrine
that you have repeated because this is what you were taught?
if you observed it, where did it come from in the body? 
how did it connect and what was able to cut it?

# and going into the astral plane and this is no nonsens !

it is nonsense in the amused dispute of someone who has not
observed it through the senses, yes. that I have no reason
to believe it occurs in anything but the imagination is not
entirely without support, and I find it valuable to argue
from this perspective amongst those who believe it 
strongly and maintain its truth in public forums.

# You never had a OBE is it ?  

I've had experiences which might be described as such, 
but I attributed to them no such dualistic interpretations, no.

I'm not convinced of the dualistic universe, you see. my
observations do not yield persuasive evidence that such a
dualism obtains in the slightest, even with many people
attempting to convince me of this with little more than
their rhetoric.

# ........... yes I thought so.....    

you are ready to conclude very easily without allowing
me to answer your inquiry. this makes you less reliable
a source on the subject.

# I have so I know that your astral body can leave your body....

thank you for reflecting your knowledge. there are a good
number of others who believe like you do. that I consider
these contentions "nonsense" is sometimes irritating to
those who are firmly convinced of the events, but be aware
that what I consider to be "beyond sense" (i.e. "nonsense")
is not something which I flat out disbelieve in its entirety.

that something *does* occur is obvious to me. the nature of
the events described by dualists is something I'm continuing
to evaluate and attempt to describe in all manner of language
and from within all manner of perspective -- from the range
of religious and mystical cosmologies which I've studied.

by far those who are convinced of these ideas are ignorant
of more than what they have been taught, seldom capable of
rational analysis without prejudice regarding that about
which they are convinced, and unfamiliar with the large 
body of literature associated with many of their contentions.

peace be with you,

blessed beast!

boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
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