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Religion and Defining Magick )

To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.christnet,alt.religion.christian,alt.religion,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.wicca,alt.pagan,alt.pagan.magick,alt.magick.folk,alt.magick.chaos
From: steward 
Subject: Re: Religion and Defining Magick (Was Catholic Magic is an Oxymoron (...))
Date: Tue, 16 Apr 1996 06:54:30 -0500

In alt.pagan you write:

>If the church is directed in part or whole by the congregations
>across the world and their preferences about their welfare, which I
>think I've been told it is (corrections welcome), then the authority 
>is not really in the hands of the Pope.  Popular media accounts depict 

Nope, fraid not..

The "laity" (non-clergy) have absolutely no say in the RCC at large.
Local pastors may -permit- a 'parish council- to take on some local duties,
but it is dissolvable at any time at his whim.

Dogma/doctrine can be decided in two ways:

-by a Council of all the RCC bishops who can make it to the Council.
 The catch here is twofold:
  -councils are called into being by the Pope;
  -The Pope appoints all the bishops personally.  Certainly, in most
   cases he likely passes on the recommendation of his equivalent of
   a cabinet secretary for choosing bishops, but it's obvious such
   a person (cardinal, in fact) would be one closely aligned with the
   Pope's views.
-by the Pope when he speaks "ex cathedra".  I don't think any Pope has
 invoked that particular power since 1950.

In addition, "working doctrine" as-you-will, that is, something that
Catholics have to believe at the current time but is neither infallible
nor unchangeable, can be (and is) declarable by the Pope at any time.

Even respected theologians are subject in their official opinions to
the "magisterium" (teaching authority) of the RCC, which is vested in
the Pope.  Theologians who refuse to revise as ordered may have their
certifications as RCC theologians revoked.

>the Pope as a stern conservative in poor health concealing sullen bishops.  
>I have no idea what the reality of the situation is.  

The press releases I've seen look a lot like the ones I've read
in books about the last year of John XXIII.  I think, based on that,
that JP II likely has colon cancer.

He's now reigned for about 17 years and has appointed most of the
current crop of cardinals (who choose the next Pope) as well as a 
-lot- of the bishops.  Don't look for any sudden liberal shifts
by the RCC for a loooong time to come.

>|Magick ...includes independent thought and action, which the Catholic
>|church frowns upon. 

>That is a very precise way of putting it, Doug, and I think even the
>Church would agree with you.

Actually, no.  (I'm too lazy at the moment to dig out the reference.)
Independent thought and action are OK and encouraged.. *if-and-only-if*,
of course, you're willing to accept correction if you go over the
line (as defined by the RCC) at all.

>I will stand against the arrogance of religious authorities.  I have
>heard these things about the RCChurch and I'd like them confirmed or
>denied.  I've heard weird things about the Pope and Rome and its 

Any other questions, mail me.. I was a very involved RCatholic once-
upon-a-time.. and I've still got all sorts of official books 
scattered about my bookshelves.


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