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From: Charly Epley 
Subject: Re: LOVE
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 1996 22:31:13 -0600

Haphaestus wrote:
> In article ,
> says...
> >
> >In article , (Snidely Whiplash)
> >wrote:
> >
> >> >Jane Taylor <> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>LOVE is what we all need,
> >> >>read the Bible and you will see!
> >>
> >> >>Jane.
> >>
> >> >Have read it....
> >> >Please explain in *plain* language why destroying a world and all but
> >> >eight of its inhabitants because the rest don't think you are top
> >> >bananna is love.
> >Greetings,
> >
> >I suggest that you read it again -- especially the beginning -- then, you
> >may understand.
> >
> >Blessings
> >Patricia
>         The categorization of God as Love is a modern invention, used to
> support the idea of universal salvation. This idea did not exist in the Tanakh,
> nor is it justified in the New Testament, as Jesus states (I forget what the
> passage is -- I think that it's in Mark) that he came not to sow peace but to
> set brother against brother, mother against son, and in essence to sow discord.
> This cannot be reconciled with the idea of universal Love.
>         The fact is that God is brutal. If one accepts the idea of
> predestination, one must accept the implication that God created the vast
> majority of humans so that they would inevitably be damned (ref., many are
> called, few are chosen); if one accepts the idea of double predestination, the
> implication is that God created Satan so that he would inevitably fall and
> provide the mechanism of torment for others. Then there is the matter of
> suffering eternal torment for a theft, or for one night spent with someone
> other than your spouse -- or for dying having refused baptism, but otherwise
> having carried out the Commandments. If one accepts the validity of the Bible,
> this caharcteristic of God is inevitably portrayed.
>         Look at the tormentation of Job, which was sent solely for the purpose
> of testing his faith. Look at the slaughter of the Egyptian infants. Look at
> the directives of Deuteronomy and Leviticus. It is of course possible that God
> changed his character when Jesus was around, but that doesn't invalidate the
> Hell-and-predestination quandry. And if one accepts the validity of the Qur'an,
> it is evident that he reverted into the severity of his former ways.
>         God as Love is a theological workaround for the difficult ethics of
> damnation, sprouting out of the Reformation and Counter-Reformation; it is not
> necessarily demonstrated in the scriptures themselves, but relies on
> substantial theological speculation and -- later in its development --
> psychology and humanism.
>         Regards,
>         Haphaestus
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Stgyian Blacksmith Studios             "Don't quote Crowley,
>                                         tell me what you think."
> Editor, The Stygian Forge              _Mage: The Ascension_
> Haphaestus 
> E-mail with "Cypher" as subject for PGP 2.6.2 public key.
> Personal posts will be killfiled unless sent encrypted.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
If you are going to quote and/or refer to Bible passages then please do
not do so by taking them out of context.  By doing so, ANY belief may be
supported!  One must thoroughly read and study the Bible with an open
mind and heart with no prior convictions or preconceived notions. Many
people look for passages in the Bible to support their way of life only
to omit the rest.  ALL of God's word must be taken into account.

God IS Love and has everlasting mercy for "His children".  Though I
confess that I am not a biblical scholar (yet), I believe that He
created both good and evil in order that we might have our own "will".

When God saved merely the 8 (including Noah) from the flood, He wasn't
being unmerciful, He was destroying evil.  He destroyed ALL EVIL upon
the face of the earth, and saved only the righteous.  There, He made a
covenant with Noah and all mankind to never again destroy mankind and
all other creatures by a flood.  Because He DOES love us.  He doesn't
abandon us, WE abandon Him!

satan is the prince of this world and he alone is responsible for the
inflictions upon the people of this world.  God will protect those of us
who follow the Lord Jesus Christ and are not OF this world but of God's.

If you go back and read Job thoroughly you will see that it was satan
who inflicted Job with sickness and disease and it was satan who took
away eveything that he owned.  satan was trying to prove to God that if
Job (being a most righteous man) were to lose all that he had (he was
rich in things of this world and rich in spirit) that he would then
curse God and reject Him.  God knew Job's heart and that he would never
reject the Lord and allowed satan to test him.  You will notice that God
alone was in control over satan. (satan said) "But put forth thine hand
now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy
face."  "And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand: but
save his life."- Job 1:5,6  You see, because satan is ruler of this
world, God ALLOWED him to take away all that Job had, save his life.
Satan causes the inflictions but GOD sets the bouderies!  God will not
allow the devil to cause more pain in our lives than each individual
(believer) can bear.  The devil has always tried to be more powerful
than God and he ALWAYS loses.  Upon Job's repentance, God returned
everything to Job he had lost because of satan, and more!

Now concerning the Egyptian infants, that was the handywork of King
Herod and the devil himself (yes, again) during his frustration of
wanting to kill baby Jesus and his inability to find him.  You will also
notice that Mary and Joseph were able to protect baby Jesus from King
Herod through faith alone and their willingness to hear God's words and
follow His directions.
"For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save
them."  I haven't yet found the passage you were referring and am still
looking, but what Jesus meant by setting brother against brother and
mother against son, wasn't to make them hate each other.  God Forbid! 
It was to teach them to love God first!  We cannot love our brothers,
mothers, or children more than we love God!  In Mark 8: 34-36 Jesus
says, "Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up
his cross, and follow me.  For whosoever will save his life shall lose
it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the
same shall save it.  For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain
the whole world, and lose his own soul?"  One of Jesus' own desciples
had to leave his wife and family to follow him.  You must also know that
God doesn't ask that of everyone and that He commands us to "honor thy
father and thy mother" and to love our children and our family".  In
fact, Jesus states that (paraphrased) "There is no greater than love
than one that is willing to die for a friend."  But we must put God
first ALWAYS and do what He asks of us.

God shows His immeasurable love for us by the sacrifice of His only Son,
our Lord Jesus Christ!  As a human being would love his own children and
die for them, God's love for us is even greater!  He offered His only
begotten Son to die for our sins so that WE would not have to "die IN
sin".  Through our belief and repentence, we are also ALIVE with Him and
through our faith we can receive true happiness on earth and everlasting
life with our Father in heaven.  God shows Himself to those who are
willing to search for Him and for the "real" truth and to those who can

I am not attempting to judge or condemn anyone, that is for God alone. 
I'm only speaking as a witness to God our Father and the Lord Jesus
Christ and to the miracles he has worked in my own life and family.
We are all just trying to find the truth and the devil is very
convincing by having people believe that the truth is in the world.
The truth is in the WORD and the word is Christ.

Merry Christmas and God Bless,
Your friend in Christ

Charly Epley - etiGATE Tel. +1 405 751 2878
PO Box 20126 Oklahoma City, OK 73156-0126
"God does not need an email address!"

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